This is a very kool build. I am planning a similar project using my 53 stude also using 500" Cad. What front suspension will be used on your stude? I am intent on using C4 corvette unit as I have already seen one done and it turned out very clean. Not sure what rear suspension to use yet , looking at many options such as 9" ford on a fourlink and watts link or set up with truck arm suspension as used on grand national stock cars. Will also look at an IRS unit , but none have really lit me up yet. Keep up the great work, I will be following your build closely to avoid too many mistakes.
Studillac continued...
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53 Studillac
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Brian,
Not sure if this will help but I found a pic of the 425 pump previously mounted. The Titan is definately bigger and it has the hassle of running the suction and pressure lines. There's a lot to be desired with it, heck I'm not even sure how I can make it happen. I'm not a fan of running hoses and there is not much room. Tightening them to be leak free if going to be difficult. You can also see the Titan on the previous pic posted of the serpentine belt installed. Note the racks are different between the pics. See the two taped hose connections, they need a hose ran between them, not sure how to do that properly without a big loop. A solid piece of tubing would be perfect. The Titan pump sits lower because of the fitting coming from the mounting plate. It is indexible to a point, the body will not allow a hose to attach to the port on the mounting plate but for a couple places in the rotation.
Dwayne
Not sure if this will help but I found a pic of the 425 pump previously mounted. The Titan is definately bigger and it has the hassle of running the suction and pressure lines. There's a lot to be desired with it, heck I'm not even sure how I can make it happen. I'm not a fan of running hoses and there is not much room. Tightening them to be leak free if going to be difficult. You can also see the Titan on the previous pic posted of the serpentine belt installed. Note the racks are different between the pics. See the two taped hose connections, they need a hose ran between them, not sure how to do that properly without a big loop. A solid piece of tubing would be perfect. The Titan pump sits lower because of the fitting coming from the mounting plate. It is indexible to a point, the body will not allow a hose to attach to the port on the mounting plate but for a couple places in the rotation.
Dwayne
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El Diablo
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Thank you for the information and pictures sir. It does look a little challenging but I believe that you also have an oiling system that you never have to second guess. I do really like it and will probably go this route as I also plan to get more out of this engine down the road.
Darius
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Dwayne,
When I read in your post #47 that you had gone "thin" on the boxed rails I could not envision what you meant. Then came the latest pictures and I can honestly say that I've never seen frame rails like that before! Have you seen that done elsewhere?
I understand that the rear frame area will only be required to support the back bumper, fuel tank + the overhanging trunk portion of the body, but my concern is for the torsional forces that will occur just forward of the thin-out. Support for the live axle mounting points will be forward - but somehow it just doesn't seem stout enough back there to deal with the twisting. Of course I tend to over engineer things. WOW!
bro. d
53 Studillac
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bro. d,
Thanks for keeping me on my toes, concerns are appreciated. I got the idea from seeing mini-tubbed Camaros, they cut into the frame rails in a similiar way to gain tire clearance on the unibody behind the axle centerline. Since I no longer need ther rear leaf spring mounting point and all my suspension mounts are ahead of the rear axle I think it will be ok. Very little was removed from axle center forward with a 7 ga piece added back. I will probably also have a roll cage tie-in point at the rear to gain back some stiffness. Vertically I feel this is stronger than the original frame, but like you said torsionally I may have lost some. If you want to call a Studebaker frame stiff, more like flexible flyer! If the trunk pops open and throws my monkey out when I gass on it there might be a problem. I hope to find some room for additional x-mbrs in the center portion of the frame as well. Even considering removing the bottom boxing plate and running tubing inside the rails for added stiffness. I would then replace the bottom flange with slightly thicker material. The rear suspension mounts are very stiff and are secured to the inside of the rails on a large scab plate to distribute the load across the thin frame rail. I wish I could do without the roll bar but having it before made the chassis so much stiffer, I think it is the key. A full aftermarket chassis would have been a better option had I wanted to start fully from scratch but I hope to use a lot of what I have already built over the years. I will just have to try it out and see if all my little tricks work, worse case it won't and I have to do it again! I think I like cutting and welding more than driving, and I like to drive.
Also showing a couple pics of the Stude truck bench you noticed in the shop pics. I drove to Dallas to get it just because it was cool! I'll drop the tailgate for you to take a seat anytime.
Dad fusses everytime he looks that it about how someone cut up a good truck to make it.
Thanks for keeping me on my toes, concerns are appreciated. I got the idea from seeing mini-tubbed Camaros, they cut into the frame rails in a similiar way to gain tire clearance on the unibody behind the axle centerline. Since I no longer need ther rear leaf spring mounting point and all my suspension mounts are ahead of the rear axle I think it will be ok. Very little was removed from axle center forward with a 7 ga piece added back. I will probably also have a roll cage tie-in point at the rear to gain back some stiffness. Vertically I feel this is stronger than the original frame, but like you said torsionally I may have lost some. If you want to call a Studebaker frame stiff, more like flexible flyer! If the trunk pops open and throws my monkey out when I gass on it there might be a problem. I hope to find some room for additional x-mbrs in the center portion of the frame as well. Even considering removing the bottom boxing plate and running tubing inside the rails for added stiffness. I would then replace the bottom flange with slightly thicker material. The rear suspension mounts are very stiff and are secured to the inside of the rails on a large scab plate to distribute the load across the thin frame rail. I wish I could do without the roll bar but having it before made the chassis so much stiffer, I think it is the key. A full aftermarket chassis would have been a better option had I wanted to start fully from scratch but I hope to use a lot of what I have already built over the years. I will just have to try it out and see if all my little tricks work, worse case it won't and I have to do it again! I think I like cutting and welding more than driving, and I like to drive.
Also showing a couple pics of the Stude truck bench you noticed in the shop pics. I drove to Dallas to get it just because it was cool! I'll drop the tailgate for you to take a seat anytime.
Dad fusses everytime he looks that it about how someone cut up a good truck to make it.
53 Studillac
Well-Known Member
Opinions sought. I will need to replace a portion of the trans tunnel to make room for the T56 and driveshaft. I managed to get the TKO-600 and 3" shaft in the previosu car but when checking into the critical speed of the driveshaft, found it would not cut it. Too long and too small in diameter for OD tranny. The 6 speed is longer so it will help but the car came with a 2 piece shaft and the tunnel is very small, so bout as well make it larger so no issues in the future. I saw a complete floor for a 69 Camaro on craigslist and it got me to thinking that may be a super easy solution. I would cut out the entire tunnel and graft in the Camaro tunnel from firewall to rear. I do not have a lot of sheetmetal fab tools so I was really dreading trying to form something by hand. The transmission will need to come up a little more that shown in the pic to get the driveline angle right.
Darius
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FWIW,
I have zero sheetmetal fab tools and about as much knowledge on the topic. Still, with the help of a young man who took the simple way forward I participated in making a totally new transmission cover area and found that the remaining driveshaft tunnel was sufficient.
Steve, the young man mentioned, took some raw measurements by bending a tape over the top portion of the large 4L80E transmission. He then used a simple cutoff wheel to slice an approximately sized sheet from a larger piece. The season was cold enough that I had the big shop heater fired up so Steve laid the raw section on top of the shop heater. After a little warming he took my welding gloves and hand formed the sheet around the propane tank - reheating as necessary. That's about as technical as it got.
That simple form was then trial fitted to the gaping hole where the original tranny cover had been. Trimming was required as were a number of cuts to accommodate protrusions on the transmission case. Dwayne, all of that is withing your capacity - especially given your great fab and welding skills .
An appropriate length and diameter of PVC pipe would be a good form for the driveshaft tunnel, just as the propane tank was in my case. You could get horizontal flanges of either side to weld to the existing floor by placing the vertical form between a shop door and its jam. Closing the door the needed amount would bend the flat areas.
If that process doesn't float your boat and your measurement of the Camaro floor is a decent fit ......
Best,
bro. d
I have zero sheetmetal fab tools and about as much knowledge on the topic. Still, with the help of a young man who took the simple way forward I participated in making a totally new transmission cover area and found that the remaining driveshaft tunnel was sufficient.
Steve, the young man mentioned, took some raw measurements by bending a tape over the top portion of the large 4L80E transmission. He then used a simple cutoff wheel to slice an approximately sized sheet from a larger piece. The season was cold enough that I had the big shop heater fired up so Steve laid the raw section on top of the shop heater. After a little warming he took my welding gloves and hand formed the sheet around the propane tank - reheating as necessary. That's about as technical as it got.
That simple form was then trial fitted to the gaping hole where the original tranny cover had been. Trimming was required as were a number of cuts to accommodate protrusions on the transmission case. Dwayne, all of that is withing your capacity - especially given your great fab and welding skills .
An appropriate length and diameter of PVC pipe would be a good form for the driveshaft tunnel, just as the propane tank was in my case. You could get horizontal flanges of either side to weld to the existing floor by placing the vertical form between a shop door and its jam. Closing the door the needed amount would bend the flat areas.
If that process doesn't float your boat and your measurement of the Camaro floor is a decent fit ......
Best,
bro. d
nosgood
Active Member
I love seeing all this frame work! Those narrow rails do look a little strange, but with some good bracing I can't imagine there'd be a problem. The only other way I could think of is getting a back-half kit like pro street cars run. Some companies make those for "universal applications," which would just require some trimming in order to weld it in place.
On the subject of that Titan pump: I think a 45* fitting at the top, pointed down, and a 90* fitting on the bottom, pointed up, all with a few inches of braided AN line in between would do the trick. The AN fittings swivel, so they'd be completely clock-able once installed, allowing you to tuck the line up against the pump. Are those -10 fittings?
-Nick
On the subject of that Titan pump: I think a 45* fitting at the top, pointed down, and a 90* fitting on the bottom, pointed up, all with a few inches of braided AN line in between would do the trick. The AN fittings swivel, so they'd be completely clock-able once installed, allowing you to tuck the line up against the pump. Are those -10 fittings?
-Nick
53 Studillac
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gordon,
I missed your post until just now! My suspension started out as a FatMan stub that was custom ordered and worker over many times. The Cad engine is big! It will fit but there's not much room for anything. When I purchased the car the distributor rubbed the bottom side of the hood and the oil pan was almost touching the rack. The front stub was home built with a Heidt's MII xmbr. If I was starting over I would buy an Morrison frame as the Studebaker is very flimsy and weak. Only your imagination and pocket depth are limits! The truck arm is supposed to be a great suspension but difficult to route exhaust. If I were starting over on the rear with the frame I have I would look at a torque arm. Good luck.
Nick,
I didn't want to move the wider rain in because of fuel tank and exhaust clearance with existing components. Maybe there will be some room for some added braces. It's not recommended practice to have such a short hose with no flex, but it might work. I believe the fittings are -12. 10s might work.
Dwayne
I missed your post until just now! My suspension started out as a FatMan stub that was custom ordered and worker over many times. The Cad engine is big! It will fit but there's not much room for anything. When I purchased the car the distributor rubbed the bottom side of the hood and the oil pan was almost touching the rack. The front stub was home built with a Heidt's MII xmbr. If I was starting over I would buy an Morrison frame as the Studebaker is very flimsy and weak. Only your imagination and pocket depth are limits! The truck arm is supposed to be a great suspension but difficult to route exhaust. If I were starting over on the rear with the frame I have I would look at a torque arm. Good luck.
Nick,
I didn't want to move the wider rain in because of fuel tank and exhaust clearance with existing components. Maybe there will be some room for some added braces. It's not recommended practice to have such a short hose with no flex, but it might work. I believe the fittings are -12. 10s might work.
Dwayne
PROSTOCKTOM
Well-Known Member
I grafted a Mustang (Fox body) firewall lower portion and tunnel into the floor on my 49 Ford 20 years ago. It has never been an issue, so I guess it was a good choice.
Before it's all over I can see you building a whole new tube frame since you love to upgrade along the way. Looking great, wish I had your energy to work on my projects.
Tom
Before it's all over I can see you building a whole new tube frame since you love to upgrade along the way. Looking great, wish I had your energy to work on my projects.
Tom
Darius
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53 Studillac
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I will just have to cruise around a junk yard and see what I can find with the correct shape. The Camaro tunnel came to mind because they are reproduced and easy to get. I think it would be an easy way to get the clearance I need without a lot of fab. I enjoy the welding, cutting and grinding! But I'm not very good a sheetmetal fab...yet. I may not ever get there but it would be awesome to have the tools and skills to just make whatever was needed. I hope the current energy level can be maintained, about the time I get going good I have to head back to work for a month. Should be home again in a week and hope I can make a big dent. There's only so much I can do without being able to see and measure stuff. I'm trying to figure out how to belt drive an oil pump but not having much luck with the space I have available.
I've been thinking about ways to make some extra "car" money and would like to get a plasma cutter so I don't have to pay shipping on these parts I design. Maybe if I could build up an income stream I could stay home and have fun all the time!
Dwayne
I've been thinking about ways to make some extra "car" money and would like to get a plasma cutter so I don't have to pay shipping on these parts I design. Maybe if I could build up an income stream I could stay home and have fun all the time!
Dwayne
Darius
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Careful there Brother, as being home and working from there could cause ALL THINGS to seem like a job!
d
53 Studillac
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Back to the car after 5 weeks at work. Pulled the engine and trans to get the body on the chassis and on the ground! What do ya'll think about the stance/ride height? I want to lower the front 1" so the rim fits closer to the wheel lip. Maybe the rake won't be too much. I think the poverty caps are going to be neat. There is 6" frame clearance at lowest and 7" at the back of the front fender. Don't you think if I lower it an 1" that will still be plenty of clearance for a road car? I don't get that on the ground look without air, but coil overs should be easier to maintain. I've got solid links bolted in to simulate ride height.
MIHELA
Active Member
Where's it going to sit with the engine in?
nosgood
Active Member
Yeah Mihela's right, I think you'll find your inch of suspension drop once you get all your running gear installed. That being said, I think you could go lower than that. I'd try to get the front wheel to fit like the rear does. It would have an aggressive rake, but I think it would fit the car. I love the view from the back, those tires look mean!
-Nick
-Nick
53 Studillac
Well-Known Member
After a long pause I have been working on the car again! The oil pump issue I was trying to sort out held me up for a while. I really wanted to fit a belt driven pump but I was going to have to make a few changes I didn't want to. Mostly my accessory drive would have had to be revamped and possibly even a remote water pump to fit where I needed it. I finally decided to go back to the Titan pump and make it work. I trimmed the front xmbr and have it fitting with no problems now. I still need to modify the oil pan but have the stuff I need to make it happen. I moved the engine back 1-1/2" and may go another 1/2" before I finish. Looks like firewall will need to move back about an inch. I also finally fit the trunk floor from the black car. I think that about catches us back up. The Studillac is back on my mind now and I hope to start making progress. Right now I really want to get the firewall and tranny tunnel fitted so I can get to body bolted in place to stay and get her back together. 
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Darius
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Hello Bro. Dwayne,
Great seeing you posting again!
The attention to detail of your build
continues to inspire! I love the symmetry.
The design of the fuel tank caught my attention. What is it’s capacity?
Best,
bro. “Impressed”, d
Great seeing you posting again!
The attention to detail of your build
continues to inspire! I love the symmetry.
The design of the fuel tank caught my attention. What is it’s capacity?
Best,
bro. “Impressed”, d
53 Studillac
Well-Known Member
Thanks d,
The tank is 20 gallons, made by Rick's, per my drawing. I have 2 Walbro pumps, for when one isn't quite enough! I planned on activating the second by an RPM switch. The only bad thing about the tank is it's heavy being made out of stainless! 16ga if I remember correctly. I didn't want it hanging down too low and visible from the rear. The front angles are to clear the exhaust. I should have made it a little taller in the trunk and got 24 gallons. I tried to make it out of aluminum but the welder guy I tried just couldn't weld as good as he thought and I didn't have anything that would do aluminum at the time. Here's a couple pics from the old car showing how it's almost invisible from the rear. I was fortunate for the tank to survive the tornado!
The tank is 20 gallons, made by Rick's, per my drawing. I have 2 Walbro pumps, for when one isn't quite enough! I planned on activating the second by an RPM switch. The only bad thing about the tank is it's heavy being made out of stainless! 16ga if I remember correctly. I didn't want it hanging down too low and visible from the rear. The front angles are to clear the exhaust. I should have made it a little taller in the trunk and got 24 gallons. I tried to make it out of aluminum but the welder guy I tried just couldn't weld as good as he thought and I didn't have anything that would do aluminum at the time. Here's a couple pics from the old car showing how it's almost invisible from the rear. I was fortunate for the tank to survive the tornado!
Thanks for sharing details of your project. I am just now working on getting the engine going. I am studying the photos and will learn from them. I am 99% sure I will use C-4 corvette front suspension and will use one of my 9"ford rearends. just can't decide on suspension set up in rear. This will be more of a road car so handling at speed is important. I also plan on flogging it occasionally at the dragstrip even though I have a dedicated car already for that. I am leaning toward a form of three or four link with Watts link . Might just stick with an upgraded leafspring/Caltrac setup to get on the road then start changing to better design. I want to drive this before they plant my carcass