Cadillac 500 in a Camaro

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Abe

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Hello everyone. Just signed up here.
Anyway I am going to go look at buying a 500cid with transmission this morning with the idea of fitting it into my 77 Camaro. I've seen several Camaro's that have the 500 in them and wanted to put one in my car.
I asked on a Camaro forum about doing this and the only response I got was to just put a 454 in the car.
So I wonder if there is anyone here that has done this and can help me out?

I have been told that to do this swap I am going to need a 4 core radiator, shorter drive shaft, move the transmission crossmember farther back and fabricate new motor mounts.
Is there anything else that I would need to do?
Thanks for any help.
 
Abe said:
Hello everyone. Just signed up here.
Anyway I am going to go look at buying a 500cid with transmission this morning with the idea of fitting it into my 77 Camaro. I've seen several Camaro's that have the 500 in them and wanted to put one in my car.
I asked on a Camaro forum about doing this and the only response I got was to just put a 454 in the car.


Don't even get me started on the ol' "just put a 454 in it"! :cursing: :bs: I have put a 500 in an 81 monte carlo, 83 bonneville, 72 chevelle and my 74 nova (which was the hardest). I don't see anything difficult about putting one in a 77 camaro and I'm sure someone here has probably done it or knows someone who has. Good luck!
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I'm sure the 454 would be easier to do but the Cadillac 500 also has been done. I tried to search but could not find any how do advice for you on this forum. Seems like it was very tight to the brake booster but overall not bad.

As far as the driveline goes, what transmission do you have now? You should use a TH400 but the chevy bolt pattern can be adapted to fit the Cadillac. The two biggest things are the motor mounts and making the headers if you want them.

If you decide to do this please post pictures and updates of your progress.

TED
 
Ted in Olympia said:
I'm sure the 454 would be easier to do but the Cadillac 500 also has been done. I tried to search but could not find any how do advice for you on this forum. Seems like it was very tight to the brake booster but overall not bad.


You can get a smaller brake booster. I did for the nova.
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Fwiw

The major problems are firewall ,brake booster as well as lack of headers and from what I have seen doing the cut and paste with a nova or camaro headers is a lil bit of a bitch.
 
The heater/AC housing can also be a clearance issue, but it can be altered a bit for clearance. I had to do that...
 
Wouldnt you have the same or worse clearance issues putting a 454 in that body? The little I know about F bodies is Firebird related and since the Ponitac motor never changed its basic footprint I dont know what they did for space under the hood. I know 78 and 79 there were a lot of Olds motors in those cars and I know the Olds was a bit bigger than the SBC's so there has got to be some extra room in there. Thinking back I do remember the Olds being a pretty tight fit around the ac box.
 
Thanks for the replies you guys. I picked up the motor today. It came with a transmission still attached. It is a long tail transmission.
I started taking things apart to remove the 350/th350 that's in the car now.
If anyone has pictures of motor mounts they've made that they can post that would be great.
I will post some pictures when it comes to fitting the 500 in.
 
Did your combo come out of a Cadillac? IF it did and it is a 500 it would have had to be a 75 or 76. That would also mean it had a a front sump oil pan. All the Cads used long tail THM400's till 77. 70-74 500's only came in the FWD Eldorados and those are the ones that had the rear sump pan that is more typical of a GM pan so its usually the one you need for swaps.
 
Yup the motor and trans came out of a Cadillac. I guess I'll have to find a oil pan and pump from an Eldorado as mine does have the front sump oil pan.
Would it be a good idea to get a short tail TH400 and adapt it to the motor or keep the long tail and shorten the driveshaft?
 
You will want to be sure to get the pickup tube to go with the pan. I believe the 68 and 69 has a smaller diameter pickup than the 70 76 blocks did so a 70-78 would be best. 77 78 were the 425 motor but same pan. You will find that buying a pan alone is not cheap. One reason is they are hard to get. Even with a torch and forklift to smash and lift things its still a job to get one free from an Eldorado.

If you have not already seen it have a look at everything on the MTS site. 500cid.com Lots of goodies there to dream about but also lots of practical stuff. They have lots of little handy things like the plugs to go in the smog rail holes in the heads. The bolt and washer for the front of the crank. Pretty nifty pulley set to get rid of the smog pump if you dont have the time to search junkyards for the less common non smog versions. Some stuff you cant get anywhere else. Other things you may be able to get elsewhere but its nice to get it from them because it helps them stay in business and make those parts that no one else will make.
 
I think what 73 Eldo was saying is that you should make sure it is a 500 and not a 472 (not that there is anything wrong with a 472). Only the rear drive 75-76 DeVille had the 500 engine, the earlier ones had the 472. If you post some pictures of the front pulleys and also maybe the head numbers we can give you a good idea of the year. The 75-76 should have a large cast iron crank pulley (some did not have the air pump), a single AC/PS Pump belt and a HEI distributor. The 74 was the first year of the single belt and HEI so this only will not tell you. The crank number will also tell you, the 500 crank ends with 094 (70-71 only) or 793 (72-76).

Expect to pay about $200 plus for the rear sump Eldo pan. The pan can only be removed after pulling the engine and make sure you also get the pick-up at the same time as they are no longer sold. I do have an eldo pan available if you need one.

There is nothing wrong with the long tail shaft (I have one in the T-bird) but the rear trans mount is unique to the Cadillac and you will have to modify your crossmember to accept this.

Where are you located Abe?

TED
 
If you want a cheap way to know for sure what engine you have then pull a spark plug and stick a straight coat hanger down the hole at bottom dead center then mark the wire and raise it up to top dead center. Measure the distance and that will tell you the stroke, which is the only difference between the two engines. :soapbox:
 
and those silly aluminum thingamabobs with the flat metal ring like things and the metal tube going thru them
 
JW said:
and those silly aluminum thingamabobs with the flat metal ring like things and the metal tube going thru them
Click to expand...

Have you been drinking (or something) again JW?
 
Ask for a g-body dual diaphram(?) brake booster, this will give you a little more room. And the Shell and Pin type joint in the steering shaft can be replaced with a smaller diameter U-joint from Sweet or Speedway motors to give a little more room.Look out for interferance between the L/H cyl. head (now farthest aft) and the Backdrive linkage lever on the steering coluum,this has to stay rotated up to allow the ignition switch to go into lock. I used roughly P- shaped 1/4 plate mounts to extend fwd. of the crossmember and '77 eldo motor mounts on my G-body swap.Check with Marty at MTS, he may have a mount kit that'll work for you. A '73 455 Super Duty Trans-Am came with the 4 core rad. you'll need
And you can always change the tailshaft and tailshaft houseing on that TH 400 or even just look around for a regular BOP style 400, even the 9 inch "longshaft" has the standard mount in the same spot as the short tailshaft or chevy style 400
Also, if your deparate for more clearance on the A/C box, you can use 425 valve covers as long as stock rockers will get the job done for you. Good luck, maybe you could scrounge an old TA for the tranny, trans crossmember,and the posi rear end with "light speed" gearing would work OK with Caddy torque. Have fun and let us know how it goes.
 
The 425 valve covers were that much smaller? They sure dont look that much different but I guess I never had em sitting side by side.

Are there issues with exhaust manifolds and front suspension? Its been a while but I presume those used the typical double A arm setup.

Is there going to be room for him to run an Edel intake or will he need to stay stock to clear a stock hood?
 
Now this is interesting .

I put a 500 in my 75 Ventura and I believe the front clip on your Camaro is the same as my car .If it's the not the same it is probably very similar .Your firewall and heater box and brake booster are probably different .

Is it a front steer ? Is the steering box in front or behind the front cross member ? Do the A frames ,where they attach to the main frame rails, rise up as you look from back to front ? Or are they parallel to the main frame ? You might benefit from the first posting about the Ventura if your frame is like mine .You will have interference with the #1 exhaust port with either headers or stock manifolds .There is a way around it .Search "Time to Fess up" ,a lot of the build on my car is explained there .

I chose to eliminate the heater on my car completely .It's a driver but not a daily driver .Its not winter driven and I wanted to lose the weight anyways .

My driver side valve cover just barely touched the brake booster .I did a little creative dinging with a body hammer to fix that .A small booster is another solution .

Are you running headers or a stock exhaust manifold ?

Hood clearance might be an issue with that low Camaro hood and an Edelbrock intake .I have only 1/2 inch clearance on my car between the air cleaner and the hood .I used a thin 2 inch ,open element filter .Mount the engine as low as practical in the frame .Run the Edelbrock intake regardles even if you have to cut the hood .There are lots of hood scoop options for the Camaro .

Front motor mounts are easy .Make them yourself if you have some 1/4 inch plate around .Be sure to gussett them for strength if you make your own .There are mounting kits available that are quite good .I made my own being Canadian and parts are not easy to ship from the US .We just aren't as fortunate as the US guys are for quick ,inexpensive shipping .

Radiators are not too difficult to deal with .Buy an aluminum one from someone like Summit .Dont screw around though .Buy the biggest that will fit .These engines will build a lot of heat .If you run a fan off the water pump pulley make sure it has a shroud .Again dont screw around ,if you run an electric get something substantial .Use an external tranny cooler in front of the rad and dont run the lines through the rad at all .In- rad tranny coolers will only add heat to the trans fluid and with a 500 and all it's torque you need to get all the heat you can out of the transmission .Its really a misnomer to call the in-rad trans coolers we use in cars a "cooler" at all .The manufacturers use them to put heat into the fluid for quick warm ups and constant fluid temperature in all climates .

Another problem that crops up is the oil filter and interference with the front stabilyzer bar .Run the small filter to get extra room and use a Wicks or NAPA Gold .Dont use a cheapo like Fram .Dont use Fram at all !


I can dig up pictures I already have or I can take some of any particular thing you are interested in .So check out your front clip and see if it is similar to the Ventura

I hope this helps .Its one hell of a motor with a lot more torque than a 454 .

Peter
 
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