budget 120cc head 500 running

On the "magic" grooves:

I had a wide band in for some of the carb tuning runs. Started out near 14-1 wot. Surprisingly, rods ranging from .057" to .030" did not change the afr all that much. The .030" rods gave apx 13.6-1 afr, and the best runs were with the .040"s at apx 13.7-1.

*Afaik*, this is way leaner than a normal engine would like. Yes, I realize that the meter may be wrong.

Dave
 
hi dave:
sure is a lot more fun driving them, then writing about them, huh!!! :yes: :yes: :yes:
sounds like you had a great time.  :yes: :yes: :yes:
ciao,
mario
 
dave brode said:
LOL. Yea, apx 13.5 gallons to get there and back, and apx 6 gallons burned during the testing [15 or so runs]. The fee was $75, so I still went in the hole.

Track is 1250 feet elevation. The other "local" track is 550'. That difference, some 4.11s, a lower shift point = *maybe* a 12.99 out of the grocery getter 87 engine. But then, I promised myself that I wasn't going to thrash it any more until I have another engine built and ready.
Dave
Click to expand...

Hey that's great Dave  :D              Have'n fun :thumbup:

                  Ron
 
Thanks guys. It was fun. It has been quite a number of years since I have run anything. Those LED lights are weird. Hard not to red. You could see the old lights coming on. not these new ones.

Ron, how 'bout a run down on your 12 second truck engine.

Dave
 
Glad to hear you're out enjoying it Dave. How much quicker did the turbo combo feel by the seat-o-meter compared to this combo, now that you have some numbers to work with?

I'd leave the gears the way they are if you intend to go back turbocharged, just enjoy it for now.  :twocents:
 
Sean said:
Glad to hear you're out enjoying it Dave. How much quicker did the turbo combo feel by the seat-o-meter compared to this combo, now that you have some numbers to work with?

I'd leave the gears the way they are if you intend to go back turbocharged, just enjoy it for now.   :twocents:
Click to expand...

Sean,

Although [imo] the 2.5" downpipes killed the turbo'd engine from 3500 up, below that there was no comparison. With the turbo'd engine you could roll along in 2nd, crack it and fishtail, let off, repeat as desired. The stocker would spin the hard mickeys badly all through low, but not 2nd. The sticky mickeys on it now hold the stocker pretty well in low. On the street, if you clean them off, it'll spin only a bit. They held it nicely at the track. The PAE convertor goes right to 4000, maybe 4200. The 1.82-1.86 sixty foot times being fairly close tell me that there was little if any spin.

Related: The 3.55s are a nice comprimise, but with 29" tires, it's buzzing near 3000 at. For street, 3.08s would be nicer. Imo it'd run best et with 4.11s, I don't think it'd loose much in the 1/4 with 3.08s. Probably loose .015 to .2 with 3.08s, and gain about the same with 4.11s. Biggest issue is the convertor is much looser in low that PAE said it would be. It's about like a normal 11" on the street at light to medium throttle. It goes 2200 or maybe 2300 cruising up a steep hill. They said it would stall at 1400 in low. It's on the convertor pretty badly going up a steep hill at 45-50 mph. With 3.08s, it'd be worse. I'm going to call and ask about it. Maybe there's something wrong. I hope so, as I was looking forward to the 1400 low stall for street use. 

Dave
 
Ron, how 'bout a run down on your 12 second truck engine.

Dave

[/quote]

Info on the truck is in the ET part of the board.

            Ron
 
Great job Dave, I wished I was there with you.

Just throw away some weight and I bet you will be over 100mph.  Not sure the gears would give it to you.

You are a lucky guy to win the $120.

TED
 
Cadillacs R Us said:
Ron, how 'bout a run down on your 12 second truck engine.

Dave



Info on the truck is in the ET part of the board.

             Ron
Click to expand...

Ron,

I always thought that the 73 up trucks were lighter than 67-72. I weighed mine on a scrap yard scale. Maybe get a weight on a good scale. Yours runs better with less cam, smaller headers. I knew that 1.875" were a tad big for this, but I didn't want to make another set later for a better engine. My 232/240 cam is a tad big for 8.6-1 CR too, but wifie wanted it to sound like something. Your potter heads are probably a *little* better  lol than mine with the stock valves. The mph is what really throws me. You are 10 mph higher. My slide chart says 98 is 13.2, so I guess that the mph is right on, but it seemed low. I guess that i'm used to seeing 13 second cars that are way off on the et.

now that it runs 13s, I want it to run 12s!

Dave
 
 
Dave, my truck wheel base is around 10 inches longer than my car, so the 1.84 60 ft was all I could muster with the frame flex, no frame bars or roll bar. The truck weight is 4180 something with gas gauges on empty.  So, carrying my heavy tools in the cab for fear of someone stealing them in the pits and add a little 94 Sunoco in one tank and 93 anybrand in the other and 200# for me took it to 4480# real quick lol

Rich said those 493s flowed close to 272?  can't remember now :scratchchin:  Maybe he will post to verify it.

BFG drag radials were 28" diameter with 3.54 dana 60. Not good for the street.  I have the perfect street setup now with stock 10 bolt and posi with the 31" BFG (285/70/15) and a 3.08 gear.

              Ron
 
Ron,

Interesting. I think that a stock 13" switch pitch and 3.08s would be super for the street. They go 1000, maybe 1200 in low and 2500-2600 in high. Really nice for economy.

The older trucks have the long control arms and lift on the frame up on the middle. I guess that my 1.82-1.86 short times are decent for 13.39. I'll get a good weight when I can.

Related: we drove it tonight, and I dinked with the convertor. Prior, I had just driven it easily in low stall. In low stall, it'll flash to at least 3000. Let off at 35 mph or so, it drops way down, stab the gas again, and it's 3000 or so again. He said 1400 in low, and I could live with a hundred or two more, but I'm betting that there's something wrong with it. I sure hope so, 'cause it's coming out regardless. The stock 12 inchers will NOT go over apx 2000, *maybe* 2100 in low, and go 3000 or a tad more in high.

Dave



Cadillacs R Us said:
Dave, my truck wheel base is around 10 inches longer than my car, so the 1.84 60 ft was all I could muster with the frame flex, no frame bars or roll bar. The truck weight is 4180 something with gas gauges on empty.  So, carrying my heavy tools in the cab for fear of someone stealing them in the pits and add a little 94 Sunoco in one tank and 93 anybrand in the other and 200# for me took it to 4480# real quick lol

Rich said those 493s flowed close to 272?  can't remember now :scratchchin:  Maybe he will post to verify it.

BFG drag radials were 28" diameter with 3.54 dana 60. Not good for the street.  I have the perfect street setup now with stock 10 bolt and posi with the 31" BFG (285/70/15) and a 3.08 gear.

               Ron
Click to expand...
 
TORQUE INC said:
  They now flow 303 @ .650

  TI
Click to expand...

Oh ya, the 2.08 and 1.75s were taken out of the 493s and they now have 2.19 and 1.84s :scratchchin:    Maybe 2.20 intakes!!!.......can't remember.  John will straighten me out lol    Thanks for the head improvement JW :thumbup:

Now if I could get charged up and put that pump gas motor back together  :cursing:

                Ron
 
Nice job Dave, I'm going to hit PRP at some point this year.  You mentioned $75, was it a track rental you were part of, or did you enter bracket racing?
 
Andy V said:
Nice job Dave, I'm going to hit PRP at some point this year.  You mentioned $75, was it a track rental you were part of, or did you enter bracket racing?
Click to expand...

Andy,

Just a track test rental.

I'm pulling the convertor today. It's not working properly. high stall is right were he said it's be, at 4000-4200. The low stall is the problem. It is supposed to be 1400, but it'll flash close to 3000, and slips 2200-2300 in normal driving. It seems like it's getting worse. Jim at PAE wanted my to swap a stocker in and make sure the problem isn't in the tranny [which i'm sure is not the case]. He modifies the piston to have more travel both ways. Perhaps something is wrong there. Just my luck, but I'm confident that he'll fix it.

I realize that it doesn't really need a 4000-4200 stall, but with 1400 in low, it should be ok. I'm wondering that since it's much looser in low stall than it should be, if it's killing et a bit, and esp mph. We'll see. I'll swap in a stock 12". On the subject, Jim told me that there are several cofigurations on the factory 12" and 13" s-p. He finds most 12" stall around 2600-2700, and most 13" to stall 2200-2300. I must have been lucky with the junkyard s-p convertors that I've used. Two 13" went 1000/2500, and three different 12" went 2000/3000. One 12" was in a light chevyII with a mild 350, and still went 2000/3000.
 
Swapped in a junkyard 2000/3000 convertor today. Raining, but it would not go over 2000 in low stall in the basement. Will send the 1400/4000 back to see what's up with it. I was really looking forward to the 1400 low stall.

Dave
 
Well, pretty much wasted the day and $50 in gas and $25 entry fee on a rained out test n tune. I wasn't going to beat on it any more until I had another engine ready. But,  :devil: made me do it. This track is 700 feet lower elevation, and most guys claim it's .002 to .0025 faster than the other track. I was hoping for maybe a 13.1x, and a 100 mph.

My buddy went to church, so we left late, and missed first round. Then it rained. They dried the track and we got one 1/8 mile pass after the rain [track not 100% dry on big end]. Then it rained hard and we were done.

It did sixty foot better than at other track. 1.79 vs 1.82-1.86 at the other track. The stock 12" switch pitch went 3100, maybe 3200 in high. Nice and tight in low. I could feel the engine tug on the truck when I switched it to low and the tach swings back down for a second or two, just like they always work. I could not feel that or see much drop in the tach with the PAE. The tighter convertor worked better overall. I still hope that when I get the 1400/4000 PAE convertor back, it'll do better. It hits harder, but since the low stall end of it wasn't working as it should, it was hurting me everywhere except right off of the line. It might be a wash with this mild engine, but I believe that esp with a wilder engine, the 1400/4000 will work better.

My 1/8 mile et was less than great, at least partly due to a short-shift from 1st to 2nd at 4100. I had swapped governors, as the one that I had in it was shifting at 5000-5100, past the engine's peak. The engine seems to peak at 4700, maybe 4800. I had not tried the "new" governor on the street :banghead:. I thought that I'd just try it there on the first pass. [only pass]. Even with the 4100 rpm short-shift, it still went 8.50, vs a best of 8.40 at the other track.

Dave
 
hey dave:
next time tell your buddy to pray for sunshine..... :cloud9: :cloud9: :cloud9:

:owned: :owned: :owned: :owned: :owned:
ciao,
mario
 
mario said:
hey dave:
next time tell your buddy to pray for sunshine..... :cloud9: :cloud9: :cloud9:

:owned: :owned: :owned: :owned: :owned:
ciao,
mario
Click to expand...

lol I did ask him if he said one for my ole stock rod bolt engine.
Dave
 
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