Showing you MY JUNK – Pictures Included!

Discussion in 'Big Block Cadillacs' started by Darius, Jan 2, 2014.

  1. kzhurley

    kzhurley Active Member

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    I can't get a real good pic on the car right now. But I do have an extra motor and an extra manifold I got some pics of.
     
  2. kzhurley

    kzhurley Active Member

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    0804181732.jpg
    That's the exhaust manifold I'm using
     
  3. kzhurley

    kzhurley Active Member

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    0804181732a.jpg
    Sideview
     
  4. kzhurley

    kzhurley Active Member

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    0804181733.jpg
    Clearance before milling.
    After milling, it moved the bottom in close to the block. My big clearance issue was in the manifold flange area.
     
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  5. Darius

    Darius Well-Known Member

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    Moving forward:
    The last picture above, the one with the custom square tubing and the turbo hanging off the side, is close to what I’m looking at now. It might utilize square material or it might utilize pre-formed 90* PIPE elbows and 2” PIPE Tees.

    I bought two 1 ½ inch mild steel, 90* short radius elbows - along with a reducing 2x2x by 1 1/2 Tee for a trial fit. The final two picture of this group show what I have in mind. In my application the 90* elbows would index into the header flanges and point downward. They would then be welded to the reducing Tees, with the short nipple pointing upward to meet the elbow and the "cross" (two nipples) placed at the firewall end to dump to the turbos. The idea is to keep everything close to the block, avoiding the shock tower. One of the unforeseen benefits is that no machining would be needed!

    The sizing is totally different between tubing and piping. Still, I can get close to the needed flow area for either to work if the manifold can be fitted.

    d
     

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  6. Darius

    Darius Well-Known Member

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    I BELIEVE WE HAVE A WINNER -- or Two!!!

    It is 12:07 AM here and I just came in from the garage and am too tired to go through the one "for sure" winner and the "possible" other winner. TOMORROW!

    That said, thank you all for your efforts in my behalf. It has meant more to me than just the success of solving a problem. As some of my recent post might have indicated I am frustrated. I apologize for my whining.

    Sleep well - and thanks again. :)

    bro. (who WILL sleep well his own darn self) d :sleep:
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
    kzhurley and peter phillips like this.
  7. kzhurley

    kzhurley Active Member

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    O the suspense....................
     
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  8. Darius

    Darius Well-Known Member

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    To keep things as simple as possible I won't go into the options that didn't work, and instead go straight to the WINNER!

    Lou, (the Lazyk) came up with the most plausible approach, that of using square tube for the exhaust manifold with it bolted directly to the exhaust surface of the head by way of through bolts!!

    After trying various possibilities Lou's suggestion was the only one that met the need by:

    a) FITTING,
    b) doing so easily,
    c) was within cost parameters - (I can afford to eat and take my medicines),
    d) and didn't require MAJOR changes to other components.

    The following pictures show an old IRS cradle mount system that has since been replaced in the final design. Note the through tube which accommodated a bolt (drill bit) running through it. This was thin wall 2 inch square tube and the interior weld was too clunky for the new application but if gives you an idea of what's to come.

    Tomorrow I will pick up the two 19 inch long, 2 1/2 X 2 1/2 X 0.186 square tubes. The wall thickness (which might be changed to 1/4 thick) was chosen so that the through tubes could be a little shorter than 2 inches thereby allowing for neat TIG welding both on the outside and on the inside. The actual mounting bolts will run through the tubes. With the through tubes welded in place there will be no problem sealing exhaust gases. Holes to match the exhaust ports will either be laser cut, water jetted or milled - depending on cost. The final product will be coated inside and out to help with heat.

    Transitions to 2 1/2 inch round tube (which will lead to the twin turbos) will be by way of a "windowed" intermediate plate welded to the bottom of the new manifold below port 6 and 8. The down side of that plate will have a short run of 2 1/2 round tube with a V-Band flange attached.

    Thanks to ALL for the many suggestions. Thanks to Lou for really reaching outside the box!

    bro. d
     

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  9. MIHELA

    MIHELA Active Member

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    My truck has a skidplate spacer made out of square tube similar to that, and I can easily jack the truck off the ground with it. Should be plenty sturdy especially with the tubes for the bolts.
     
  10. nosgood

    nosgood Active Member

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    Now that is some intuition! Nice idea Lou. How do you completely weld around the through tubes on the inside of the manifold? And, is 2 1/2 inches enough volume for the pipes going to the turbos?
     
  11. Darius

    Darius Well-Known Member

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    Great question about "how do you completely weld around the through tubes on the inside of the manifold?" Thankfully, there are TIG torches for tight places and people who know how to get it done. I'm not THAT guy but the man who did the beautiful work on critical parts of the Studebaker has those skill.


    Weldcraft - WP-125M Torch Body, 125A, W/C - WP-125M

    • Low-profile nozzle for access into 5/8diameter holes
    • Interchangeable chucks and nozzles for 45º, 90º, and 180º applications
    • Quartz nozzles and 3/32chucks are available for increased capacity to 160 amps (dcsp) 100% cycle duty
    About the flow volume: the 2 inch PIPE (which didn't fit) with its I.D. of 2.067, has a total area of 3.36 square inches, while the I.D. of the 2 1/2 inch square tube, minus it's 0.188 wall thickness, has a total area is 5.35 square inches. Some of that will be lost to the through tubes but overall it would be close. Besides, the PIPE won't fit and the square tube will.

    Best,

    bro. d
     

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  12. Darius

    Darius Well-Known Member

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    Just in:

    " Tig welding inside a small tube ?
    I have a issue I need to repair or pay to have done.

    I am wondering if it is feasable to buy a 90 degree small torch to repair an area inside a 2.5 od SS tube that is approx. 3 inches deep into the tube. Tube wall is .060.

    I don't have the unit apart for pics yet. It is a SS header off a Drag Race engine, there is a burn through or "sugar" spot in the tube that will allow liquid to leak through and drip out through the outer sleeve.

    I am thinking I can get in there and grind down the sugar spot and then with a small torch get to it and weld up the spot.

    I have a synchrowave 250 here at home. I guess I am looking for places to buy a torch small enough or would take them to a shop somehwere in Calif ???

    Thanks"
     

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  13. Darius

    Darius Well-Known Member

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    My little project is experiencing something familiar to all of us and that is having to wait for someone else to do something. Seems business is very good for my metal products supplier (which is a good thing) but that has them backlogged. I'm in line to have the square tubing and small rounds cut to size.

    bro. d
     
  14. gary kosier

    gary kosier Active Member

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    Darius,

    you want to be sure to Never-Seize those bolts where they go thriygh those sleeves or they will surely seize. I put Heli-coils in my heads so the bolts would come out. I think I would also use
    copper gaskets between your manifolds and heads.

    Gary Kosier
     
  15. MIHELA

    MIHELA Active Member

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    Black oxide is supposedly the best bolt finish to resist corrosion in exhaust systems. I don't know whether to believe that or not since everything seems to seize after a few rounds.
     
  16. Darius

    Darius Well-Known Member

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    Gary, MIHELA,

    Thanks guys! I hadn't thought that far ahead but you are spot on in your concerns for those bolts sticking. The coating will provide some protection from the heat but not from the effects of moisture and heat -RUST.

    Not sure about the capabilities of black oxide so I'll do a Google search on that. In the past I've used stainless steel header bolts and nuts with good success. In a few cases I tried brass nuts with carbon steel bolts, but the stainless was better overall. Whichever works best in this application will be my choice!

    I had been considering another gasket material, one that is available for many engines, including the big Cadillac. I can't recall the name right now but it is on my other computer so I'll post that when downstairs.

    Best,

    bro. d
     
  17. gary kosier

    gary kosier Active Member

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    Well, if that's the Cometic, they are very good. But, I bought a set when I put the Cad in the motorhome. Then I blew one out on the road and
    had to remove the manifold and scrape all the remaining gasket material off and bolt the manifold directly to the head. Later I blew the other
    side and again eliminated it. I've never got around to doing anything else. I've always thought that the copper gaskets would be better since
    they would allow heat transfer to the head and then to the cooling system. Heat soak is what warps exhaust system. Anyway, my opinion.

    Gary Kosier
     
  18. Darius

    Darius Well-Known Member

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    Your "opinion" makes total sense. Thank you.

    d
     
  19. Darius

    Darius Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
  20. thelazyk

    thelazyk Member

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    Hello bro, d
    Been out of town the past week (Hot August Nights-Reno) and just catching up. You had lots of great possibilities there and we all can't wait to see you get this fantastic project on the road. As far as the thru tubes being used to protect the bolts it makes lots of sense. I doubt it is necessary to weld inside of the tube. Way cool the way he is doing it, but over kill in my opinion. With good fit-up, your tig person should be able to weld the round tubing to the square tubing with 100% penetration on the exterior side only. Much easier and less warpage. No strength issues involved.

    Regards,
    Lou

    P.S. I tried to upload a word document with the x-y coordinates for milling the bolt holes and the exhaust ports into the square tubing to no avail. If you want them, I will try something else to paste it on the thread or mail them to you.
     

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