Posting my first time...

Discussion in 'Early Cadillac Engines' started by Damien Benson, Feb 22, 2020.

  1. Damien Benson

    Damien Benson New Member

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    First post, on any site like this. I am a Fire Captain with Huntsville Fire and Rescue, I work on ATV's and anything gas. Also do remodeling on the side.

    I currently have 2 trucks I am working on, a 1977 LWB (red) and a 1976 SWB C-10 (blue). I was given a Cadillac 500 with a 700R4 transmission. The Cadillac is bored .30 over and has a front sump oil pan. The man was going to use it in his '49 Chevy 2 post, but went with a crate 502. The motor has 30k miles and has been sitting in his garage for a few years. Has A/C, and the 1977 C-10 does also. My plan is to put the 500 in the '77, refresh the head and pan gaskets, change the intake, and maybe a mild cam. The '76 I have a rock crusher for and plan to put a 5.3 in it.

    My question is what mounts and pan will I need? I have been looking thru Google and this site all day and cannot find the parts I need. I also tried Summit. Looking for part numbers, as I don't mind ordering what I need to make this plug and play.

    My plan is to take the truck to his house, install the motor and tranny, and do the finish work at my house. I will have about a week to get this all together.

    Point me to the right thread please, or someone who can give me some info on parts. I can fabricate, but being at his house for a limited time, I would like to get it in and out of his way as fast as possible.

    Also, he has a Muncie 4 speed for sale, short shifter, and host of other parts, non-caddy. early Corvette and an Olds BB.
     

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  2. Schurkey

    Schurkey Member

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    "Good luck" getting a TH700 to live behind an engine with torque in a heavy vehicle.

    It's very silly to put the engine into the vehicle, THEN try to fight oil pan and head gasket replacement.

    You're probably looking at getting OEM Cadillac engine mounts/brackets, and custom-fitting them to the crossmember. I can't help you with that, the only Caddy mounts I've got are for ElDorado--they'd be completely wrong for your application.
     
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  3. Darius

    Darius Well-Known Member

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    Hello Damien, welcome to the forum

    There have been a number of members here who have put the big Cadillac 472s and 500s in trucks so you are in line with many.

    Sorry, but I have zero information about which oil pans would work with which truck frames, but the company I mention just below might be of help.

    As far as engine mounts I can point you to CadCo as possibly having something that might make it “plug and play” but don’t know that as fact. Here are two links to their website. Check it out or give them a call.

    https://www.cad500parts.com/ https://www.cad500parts.com/catalog/page28.htm

    Motor mounts were a big question mark for me because my Caddy 500 was going into a 1985 S-10 pickup frame. Trust me, there was nothing out there “plug and play” for my project; but research showed there was no shortage of ways to make your own motor mount if you had the equipment and fabrication skills. Attached are a few pictures and the Internet has tons more.

    Your post isn’t clear so I’m not sure if the man you are buying the Cadillac engine from is also the man at whose house you intend to install the engine into your truck. Member Schurkey's suggestion that you change gaskets, intake and camshaft prior to installing the engine certainly makes sense, if that is an option.

    Again, welcome to the forum. Be sure to share pictures of your projects as you move along,

    Best,

    Bro. d
     

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  4. Caddylackn

    Caddylackn Member

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    Also you can buy cheap Big Block Chevy headers for your year truck, cut off the BBC chevy flanges, massage the pipe ends a little to square them and weld these on:
    https://www.jegs.com/i/Patriot-Exhaust/737/H7884/10002/-1 Mock up and tack weld the headers and flanges to the motor while in the truck first so you get the angle right to clear frame and brake lines, before removing and fully welding in the flanges. Insulate the hell out of the metal fuel line if it ends up anywhere near the header. I recommend the later 425 style mechanical fuel pump with the return line back to the tank to prevent vapor lock. Caddy motors run hot.

    If you can't weld, the Sanderson mid length Caddy headers should work but the frame rail may need notched on passenger side. I'd rather have long tube headers, makes it easier to fab the rest of the exhaust.


    Also check this forum (check for your truck year) does have a few Caddy swap threads https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/forumdisplay.php?f=4

    If you can weld, cut & shape 1/4" or 3/8" steel plate, and have an engine crane its not that hard to do the engine mounts. Attach the motor to the tranny with a crane and try to center the fan in the radiator and start measuring. You can start with the engine to frame mounts from a Big Block truck and you can move them forward (I heard if you swap left for right it is easier). Use new rubber motor mounts and bolt to motor. Use 1/4" to 3/8" steel to make whatever is needed to attach the frame mount to the motor mount that is attached to the block. Slot the single hole that the motor mount attaches to, so you have some adjustment while in the car.

    You will need an eldo rear sump oil pan or a 425 caddy 3/4 rear sump oil pan and pickup. Now is a good time to check and modify the dipstick so it reads accurate if you swap. Your front sump oil pan can be cut and modified into a rear sump pil pan if you have welding/fabbing skills. The rear sump oil pans are getting hard to find. Make sure the oil pan pickup is modified also. The 425 caddy angled oil pump clears the cross member better or you can use the 500 pump and cut a big notch in the crossmember and box it in if you want to get the strength back.

    With the motor out, replace the timing set if it is still the crappy nylon tipped unit, and clean out the oil pick up screen, new oil pan and front seal gasket. Replace the valve stem seals if they are broken and brittle.

    You will need a BOP to chevy transmission bell housing adapter to use the chevy transmission. The turbo 400 transmission is best. Be aware there are 3 different length turbo 400s with two different bolt patterns. You will want to match the length of your existing transmission or you will need to do driveshaft modifications. The turbo 400 that came with a caddy 472 or 500 will be too long without driveshaft modifications. You'd be on limited time with a turbo 350 or 700r4 unless you throw big money into it. A limited slip rear end or locker is mandatory if you want some decent traction for playing/racing. A 3:08 or numerically lower rear end ratio is best. The caddy motor doesn't like to cruise at 3,000 rpms indefinitely. A big block radiator is needed and a decent fan shroud.

    You will want to use the stock cast iron intake manifold to use A/C. I don't know if the Chevy truck A/C compressor will fit onto the Caddy intake manifold, or if you will need the A/C compressor model that came with the Caddy.
     
  5. 48Austin

    48Austin Safty First! Then pull the trigger!

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    This is not going to be a "plug and play", but is well worth the effort. The Big Cad in the C10 and larger trucks was a very popular swap in the 80's. Considering the weight of the BBC [chevy] compared to the BBC [Cad] and low end torque. Really good. Or then some.
     
  6. Damien Benson

    Damien Benson New Member

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    I do have a welder and skills. Yes, I am doing it at his house, enough to trailer it home. Mostly wanted to freshen the gaskets for the pan, since it will need to be swapped. The pan, if I remember correctly, has the sump towards the front. The 700R4 is already mounted to the transmission, as he was going to use it for his project. I have known him well and for many years, so he just gave me the entire setup.

    I was really hoping to get the parts I needed to order, mounts and pan, so at the worst I could get them changed out and get the motor mounted into the truck. Once that is done, I can trailer it home and do the rest. I just do not have a lift, hoist, or stand at my house. I planned to clean the motor, paint it, mount it into the truck. At home put in the manifolds, change the intake, swap the timing set (thanks for the info), and finish her up. Really didn't want to take more than a week to get the motor in and out of his way, but if fabrication is needed, I would rather do it at my house where I have the tools. He has some, but has been so nice, I don't want to get in his way.

    The motor has everything, even the caddy compressor and brackets, power steering and brackets, cast intake and carb. I do not plan to race it, maybe get on it some, but just a good sounding, good driving truck. The 700R4 has been gone thru, and the engine is bored .30 over. The truck does have an auto, not sure if its a 400 or 350 transmission. If i need to shorten the drive shaft or extend it, we have a shop in town that can do that. This is mostly a free or low cost amount of parts in a great truck body.

    I want to clean it up, good interior, clear satin the exterior, lower it a little, and enjoy it.

    The biggest thing I cannot understand about the caddy 500 is how it runs hot in a truck, and not in the caddys it came in. I mean a stock C-10 with the bed is more weight than a big 60's or 70's caddy? Very strange. Not arguing with anyone, just trying to understand.

    I do have a Rock-crusher, and it has been built, but that's even an expensive adaption. I figure $1000 to get a free motor and a $500 truck up and running decent. The rest will take a little time.

    Again, thanks for the info, I will research some more.
     
  7. Damien Benson

    Damien Benson New Member

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    Here's some photos of what I'm getting. The drawing is of the pan on the transmission. The engine comes with the original motor mounts, and exhaust manifolds. The pan and the rest of the mounts are my problems as I would like to get what I need, plop it into the truck and bring everything to my house. Cutting, modifying, hooking up things are the least of my concern, just get it mounted into the truck and bring it home. He states the tranny is a 700R4 and does not know the year of the engine. It is bored .30 over, you can see it on the tops of the pistons.

    Now, suggestions on parts, pan, pickup, motor mounts and clearance issues from people who have done this. I need some pointers and issues on the mounting.

    And yes, that's his '69 Vette and his '49 Coupe in the background. The reason I'm getting this is he changed his mind to a 572 in the '49 and had this ready for a little polishing and freshening up.


    Cad500.jpg Cad5005.jpg Cad5007.jpg Cad5001.jpg
     
  8. 48Austin

    48Austin Safty First! Then pull the trigger!

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    If I am not mistaken, You will need the Eldo pan and pickup. Go to cadillacperformance.com . Give them a call and they can hook you up.
     
  9. PJ McCoy

    PJ McCoy Well-Known Member

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    It can be done. Like cadillacin said, make sure it has a new type cam gear and chain. the poly coated stock is crap! I installed a 500 into the T/A, you can install one in a c-10 truck. I have hacked up a front sump pan until I found what I needed. its not that hard. But it will take you a lot more time than you think. I would freshen the motor up before the install. I used 1/2 plate steel 6"X10" on both sides for a mock up. you can cut it down and "finesse it later. I suspect that it will take a week just setting everything up. To speed up the process I would remove the front clip of the truck. It will make it easier when fabbing up your headers and motor mounts. I burned up a Th35, I think it was the T.V. cable cable not adjusted correctly by "ME". The trans in the chevy will not fit the caddy without an adapter. Find a th400. Use the one you have but make sure you baby it. But keep looking for a th400.
    Good luck and welcome to the forum.
     
  10. 48Austin

    48Austin Safty First! Then pull the trigger!

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    I would keep the Cad trans and shorten the drive shaft or get the right tail shaft and housing.
     
  11. mario

    mario Well-Known Member

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    You will also have to massage the firewall on the driver's side as the head sits back on that side.
    Ciao,
    Mario
     
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  12. Damien Benson

    Damien Benson New Member

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    Thanks guys. Finding a BOP 400 will be harder than buying an adaptor plate for the 400 I have. Since I cannot find direct fit mounts for this motor, what mounts should I use and what type of plate thickness? Also, DAM that pan from cad500.com is HIGH!! I'm hoping they have a "needs some work" one they're willing to sell. I think if I can get these parts together, remove the front end to mount the motor, this can easily be done in a week. Not running and driving, just mounted and on a trailer. I'll wait for those trials and tribulations when I get it home.
     
  13. 5one9

    5one9 Active Member

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    The transmission in the picture is a BOP TH400. Not a 700R4.
     
  14. 5one9

    5one9 Active Member

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    The trans pan that is hand drawn is TH400, and nothing else.
     
  15. 48Austin

    48Austin Safty First! Then pull the trigger!

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    Cad Co sells recon Eldo pans. Just sold an Eldo pan and pickup. Need the aluminum and kit. Building a gasser. Gotta look good doin wheel stands:D
     
  16. Darius

    Darius Well-Known Member

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    SUGGESTION

    Buy and paint a stamped steel pan ALUMINUM, then pocket the green!! ;) You'll still look good doin wheel stands - plus you'll have money for fuel. :)

    Best,

    bro. d
     
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  17. 48Austin

    48Austin Safty First! Then pull the trigger!

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    But it won't be finned cast. CadCo selling the pan, pickup, dipstick and tube, main studs, girdle. And I forget what else. For about 900. Can't beat that.
     
  18. Cadillac Kid 1

    Cadillac Kid 1 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry,
    But this 7 qt pan (baffled inside) does the trick
    Greg Surfas

    IMG_1219.jpg
     
  19. 5one9

    5one9 Active Member

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    Dang. How much is just the girdle?
     
  20. 48Austin

    48Austin Safty First! Then pull the trigger!

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