Possible problems running oversize valves, 472 peanut relief pistons, MTS #15, Potter rockers.

Discussion in 'Big Block Cadillacs' started by DevilDeVille, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. DevilDeVille

    DevilDeVille Member

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    Today we found out, that shorter head bolts in the 9.1 kit that MTS sold me, are way too short. Luckily have a set of ARP studs in shelf. The Saga continues...
     
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  2. 5one9

    5one9 Active Member

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    Man I’ve been there and recently. I’d like to tell you that it will get easier............but I’ll just say I hope it gets easier. Keep us updated
     
  3. DevilDeVille

    DevilDeVille Member

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    This is the intermediate length stud of ARP compared to MTS bolt. There is a "slight" difference in smooth area, one might say...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  4. 5one9

    5one9 Active Member

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    I’ve been there too, sort of.

    First I ordered Milodon head studs. It came with 2 more long studs than were required and 2 less intermediate studs than were required. I sent them back and got ARP studs. Problem solved.
     
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  5. DevilDeVille

    DevilDeVille Member

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    Altered conrods seem to fit just fine:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
  6. DevilDeVille

    DevilDeVille Member

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    T&D roller rockers (for reasons unknown to me, the design of adjustment screws is changed, so that the oiling of the rockers no longer happens straight through the screw/bolt, but instead through the rocker itself), gave the screws to a machinist, to be altered in the lathe. The Saga continues (everything seems to be "bolt on", had to alter the length of ARP head studs also, as i intended to mount the T&D rocker stands)
    [​IMG]
     
  7. DevilDeVille

    DevilDeVille Member

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    Old screws were destroyed(thats why i bought new pieces), for also reasons unknown to me. Purchased the set as "slightly used". Probably should have purchased a brand new set.
     
  8. Darius

    Darius Well-Known Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

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    Just a heads-up: Be sure to check oil pan fit now that you have those main studs sticking up. That height out of the nut turned out to be a problem for me.

    Best,

    bro.d
     
  9. MIHELA

    MIHELA Active Member

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    Do those T&D rockers use the same pushrods as stock? I'm amazed at the variety of setups that are out there and how poor the documentation and photos of them are on the various websites. Yours look nothing like the pic of T&D's site for example and the one on MTS I mean CHP's site is like a thumbnail from a GeoCities website circa 1999.
     
  10. DevilDeVille

    DevilDeVille Member

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    Nope, the pushrods are custom length and ofcourse, valves and pistons decided, that they should have a "meet and greet" so valve reliefs need to be altered as well. Freaking hell.
     
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  11. 5one9

    5one9 Active Member

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    My early T&Ds are totally unlike the single replacement that I received from them. Square end vs round. Old set had slightly offset pushrod cups on the intake. Early has 3/8” adjuster bolts with 7/16” nuts. Later had 7/16” bolts and 1/2” nuts. Early had 1.70 ratio but lengths were such that roller tip was overcenter on valve causing ‘bad’ pattern on valve tip. Rocker to head studs were ARP that installed prior to aluminum rails.

    MTS (I mean CHP) were silver and not gold. Wouldn’t clear 1.55” diameter springs. I misplaced 4 of them and needed replacements. I had issues getting help and then they started asking questions like gold or silver?, 5/8” shafts? I’m thinking WTF I just bought these a couple of months ago! Yes, silver and 5/8”. The guy sends me four for $75. I am thankful and when they arrive they have 9/16” shafts, valve spring reliefs, milled bottom radii for base clearance, and rust on the rollers. I call back and he said “damn, I’ll get xxxxx to call you from Harland Sharp”. One week no call. I call xxxxx at Harland Sharp myself and he is friendly beyond belief and sends me four for about $120 along with a replacement shaft for an original that had lathe chatter. They arrive and are perfect and after changing to beehive springs I installed them. Since there were no instructions I torqued the 5/16” bolts to 30 lbft. SNAP, one of the studs broke. Totally different studs (not as robust) than T&D. Called xxxxx back and he is friendly beyond belief again and send a free replacement set and says 22 lbft. I never heard from CHP again and wasn’t offered a $75 refund.

    I wished you good luck earlier and I certainly still do. I have ten more stories like this if you are interested. I see both of our support companies dying in the next few years because I believe their are few who care to fight through the adventure of building one of the engine to any higher performance level.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
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  12. Caddylackn

    Caddylackn Member

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    I agree. I would love to take my motor to the next HP level and upgrade and spend my hard earned money on engine parts, but I am unwilling to be the vendor's guinea pig and do their R&D for them with my motor and money.

    It is not all the vendor's fault; today its an internet world and businesses don't build a stock pile of parts and then put them in their own warehouse waiting to be sold anymore. Too much overhead to be competitive on the internet market.

    The new business model is: You build to order, and stock your parts from other part suppliers who use ever changing suppliers, so your overhead is low since you don't need to own a warehouse and spend money on buying and stock piling parts that may never be sold. They typically ship from their supplier directly to you, so the vendors may not even be aware of changes, since they never saw it. It is just the new business model, and it sucks for small made in USA vendors. Yes, some vendors still make their own stuff, but you know how expensive it is. Also when a vendor does come out with a great quality product, you can bet there will soon be a Chinese copy that costs half as much or less out on the internet for sale, where any Google search will guide a buyer right to it.

    What I recommend for the small vendors is using communication and transparency. They should upgrade their descriptions and pictures continually with the changing parts. They should make their suppliers notify them of any change and continuously sample what is going out the door in their name. Offer discounts for buyers that are trying out new parts or suppliers. Take refunds and exchanges when it doesn't work out. Post up reviews of all your products on your website (good and bad) and take feedback seriously. When vendors sell their parts, they should be telling/showing you exactly what you are getting and who made it.

    As consumers we should:
    1. Ask questions before purchasing, request pictures, find out who made it, and where. Do all this in email or writing to leave a paper trail.
    2. Read product reviews before purchasing, ask questions to the vendor about problems identified on other reviews.
    3. After purchasing; review their products, provide feedback for every purchase good or bad. Update reviews if possible (if it breaks later, or they fix the problem and make it right)
    4. Report sh.tty vendors to BBB, file formal complaints.
    5. Pay with a credit card or Paypal. If it is downright fraud, go to your credit card company or Paypal and file. Try to get them to reverse charges.
    6. Post up your experiences on forums providing only the facts and details (like 5one9 did above), without it becoming just a one sided rant against a particular vendor.
     
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  13. DevilDeVille

    DevilDeVille Member

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    Main studs trimmed, pushrods cut to length and assembled. Lets see, what higher forces will throw at us next :D

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Darius

    Darius Well-Known Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

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  15. Caddylackn

    Caddylackn Member

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    I didn't know you could cut/shave pushrods. Aren't they surface hardened? Or they just made of hard moly steel?
    So much to learn when you go custom.....
     
  16. 5one9

    5one9 Active Member

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    Cut to length with press in ends
     
  17. DevilDeVille

    DevilDeVille Member

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    Some progress, and yes, naturally the valve covers had to be trimmed in order to clear the rockers :D

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. 5one9

    5one9 Active Member

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    Looks real good.
     
  19. DevilDeVille

    DevilDeVille Member

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    Well, It´s alive...

     
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  20. 5one9

    5one9 Active Member

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    Congratulations. Let the fun begin
     

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