Oil pump upgrade

Jerry1865

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1970 cadillac
Im looking for any info on an oil pump upgrade. Im looking to turn approx 6k on a 472 with hyper kb pistons (9.8 : 1) on forged rods with a .555 lift, 280 duration flat tappet isky cam & shaft roller rockers.
I plan to run a bit more than stock claerace on the rod and main bearings so im looking for an upgrade to the oil pump.
I can only find the stock pump from melling.
Im not above running a second pump if thats the way to go. Im sure that im not the first person to be looking for this answer so please point me in the direction of any solutions,,,,,
Thank you
 

Big Cadoo!

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Make .875 id tubing pickup tube. Wolffe air craft has mandrel bent 1 inch od .0625 wall. Make sump pick from 3 inch exhaust tubing. Use .125 hole pickup sump screen. Set pump gears to gasket used on installation. Contour engine block oil hole to flow oil into oil pump gears. Ball rotary file the 90 degree passage on engine into oil pump. Make adjustable oil pressure screw on side of oil pump where pipe plug is over pressure spring. Set oil pressure at pump to 100psi. Install remote oil pressure relief valve at oil guage port at rear of engine block as thats the last port location that receives oil pressure at the end of oil flow path. Vent the pressure valve into valley area of engine. Make 8 quart oil pan. Get oil away from that crankshaft. Or leave it stock and drive it to BINGO!
 

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Big Cadoo!

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Make .875 id tubing pickup tube. Wolffe air craft has mandrel bent 1 inch od .0625 wall. Make sump pick from 3 inch exhaust tubing. Use .125 hole pickup sump screen. Set pump gears to gasket used on installation. Contour engine block oil hole to flow oil into oil pump gears. Ball rotary file the 90 degree passage on engine into oil pump. Make adjustable oil pressure screw on side of oil pump where pipe plug is over pressure spring. Set oil pressure at pump to 100psi. Install remote oil pressure relief valve at oil guage port at rear of engine block as thats the last port location that receives oil pressure at the end of oil flow path. Vent the pressure valve into valley area of engine. Make 8 quart oil pan. Get oil away from that crankshaft. Or leave it stock and drive it to BINGO!
 

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Big Cadoo!

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Make .875 id tubing pickup tube. Wolffe air craft has mandrel bent 1 inch od .0625 wall. Make sump pick from 3 inch exhaust tubing. Use .125 hole pickup sump screen. Set pump gears to gasket used on installation. Contour engine block oil hole to flow oil into oil pump gears. Ball rotary file the 90 degree passage on engine into oil pump. Make adjustable oil pressure screw on side of oil pump where pipe plug is over pressure spring. Set oil pressure at pump to 100psi. Install remote oil pressure relief valve at oil guage port at rear of engine block as thats the last port location that receives oil pressure at the end of oil flow path. Vent the pressure valve into valley area of engine. Make 8 quart oil pan. Get oil away from that crankshaft. Or leave it stock and drive it to BINGO!
 

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Big Cadoo!

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Canton products makes a 1.250 pickup tube for LS engines modified for competition. Thats 1.125 id at .0626 wall thickness. The LS has a long tube like the cad500.
 

Big Cadoo!

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Canton products makes a 1.250 pickup tube for LS engines modified for competition. Thats 1.125 id at .0626 wall thickness. The LS has a long tube like the cad500.
Im gonna fabricate a 1.125 inside diameter pickup tube for Cad500 engine. Its .875 i.d. to 1.125 i.d. Woolfe Aircraft has superb tubing.
 

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Big Cadoo!

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Im gonna fabricate a 1.125 inside diameter pickup tube for Cad500 engine. Its .875 i.d. to 1.125 i.d. Woolfe Aircraft has superb tubing.
 

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Big Cadoo!

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This post goes with picture of oil tube. Mockup of 1.125 i.d. tubing.
 

Darius

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That is a good start for sure, but what about the diameter of the oil galleries in the engine? What is their size, and is there enough wall thickness to enlarge them?

bro. "a somewhat dimmed, yet curious mind would like to know," d
 

Big Cadoo!

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That is a good start for sure, but what about the diameter of the oil galleries in the engine? What is their size, and is there enough wall thickness to enlarge them?

bro. "a somewhat dimmed, yet curious mind would like t
 

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Good question. Im fabricating this diameter tube as a test piece. The problem isnt that the passages are too small and wont flow. The problem is the oil pump cant pump enough volume to keep pressure up. The rear sump pans have long tube to flow oil through. My situation is that I have roller lifters with no oil control piddle valves in them. Ive made .875 i.d. pickup tubes and have good flow and pressure. Now to satisfy my curiosity Im making a larger i.d. tube. I have everything here that I need to fabricate many things. I wont know how it performs till the tube is installed on an engine with oil pan and ran to full temperature and rpm. Im looking at the first passage on pump discharge in engine block for increase in diameter.
 

Big Cadoo!

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Good question. Im fabricating this diameter tube as a test piece. The problem isnt that the passages are too small and wont flow. The problem is the oil pump cant pump enough volume to keep pressure up. The rear sump pans have long tube to flow oil through. My situation is that I have roller lifters with no oil control piddle valves in them. Ive made .875 i.d. pickup tubes and have good flow and pressure. Now to satisfy my curiosity Im making a larger i.d. tube. I have everything here that I need to fabricate many things. I wont know how it performs till the tube is installed on an engine with oil pan and ran to full temperature and rpm. Im looking at the first passage on pump discharge in engine block for increase in diameter.
Another idea that I have is installing a an fitting on the outside of oil pump on suction side to connect a hose to another fitting on side of oil pan sump. The an fitting would be installed at the lower part of the oil pumptowards bottom of the gears. This could/would increase oil flow into pump. Oil in vs Oil out.
 

5one9

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Another idea that I have is installing a an fitting on the outside of oil pump on suction side to connect a hose to another fitting on side of oil pan sump. The an fitting would be installed at the lower part of the oil pumptowards bottom of the gears. This could/would increase oil flow into pump. Oil in vs Oil out.
I have a mocked up drilled and tapped stock aluminum housing with this very setup somewhere in the garage. -8an.
 

Big Cadoo!

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I have a mocked up drilled and tapped stock aluminum housing with this very setup somewhere in the garage. -8an.
Did you test it? Ive seen mopar after market pump setup with two inlet lines for 8000 rpm use. So... my thought was/is to try it. After I fabbed the
875 i.d. tube the an fitting idea wasnt tried.
 

5one9

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Did you test it? Ive seen mopar after market pump setup with two inlet lines for 8000 rpm use. So... my thought was/is to try it. After I fabbed the
875 i.d. tube the an fitting idea wasnt tried.
Not yet. I'll put the secondary pickup tube in the pan this winter with the engine out. I'll make the 0.875" tube also and hook this up after a few miles just to see what the results are. My initial guess is that with the larger tube, nothing else is really needed.
 

5one9

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Have you seen any distributor or cam gear wear from 100psi of oil pressure?
 

Big Cadoo!

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Have you seen any distributor or cam gear wear from 100psi of oil pressure?
No. The oil pressure will go to 100psi cold with 50w oil if rpms are brought past 2000 cold. I keep rpms low till heat is in engine. The oil pressure hot never goes above 60 psi with 50w. With 20/50 the oil pressure is 55psi. My camshaft has a seperate cam gear on a keyway. Thats how they made them in the past. I gleened info from other engines also known for oiling problems. Like the 351C. The ford FE 427 side oiler had it oil pressure relief at the rear of block and vented into the crank case. I read that taller oil pump gears are difficult to get full oil flow at higher rpms due to restrictive pickup tube. Thats why I thought of fillig that area of pump with the an fitting and hose external oil hose. I never had a oil pressure problem until I used mechanical roller lifters. I will take picture of distributor gear of cam drive flange attachment I fabricated.
 

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Picture of mechanical roller with separate flange. 3 dowels drive the cam off the flange. 7/8 unf nut tightens down on flange cam gear from Cad500 machined to fit end cam on keyway. Fuel pump eccentric and end play piece then tighten down with 3/8 allen bolt. I made this type of drive because I was told that when the flange is welded on the weld sometimes cracks during heat reatment of cam core 8620 steel. Heres the type of lifters Ive used. One on left is for Pontiac 455. One on right is SBC reduced base circle. Notice the oil metering hole locations. Holden V8 is similar to the SBC lifter. When I bush the lifter bores Ive use the Holden or SBC lifter as the bushings use a .040 hole that dosent align with the oil hole on lifter. That lifter oil hole is known as edge orifice oiling. Even with that oil hole on the edge the oil that gets pumped past it is massive! I only used mechanical roller cam because when the Cad500 flat tappet cam were ground for serious lift and duration they wouldnt last. Also no hydraulic roller lifters were readily available for Cad500. Jones Cams did the grind and heat treatment. I didnt want to give up on the Cad500 engines.
 

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48Austin

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BUUUUT, according to Courtney, {Holdeners vid with with the "Caddie Gremmie", Courtney in the back ground yelling "stock" When questioned on the oil system} The big boy doesn't really have oiling issues.
I would like to know if hyd. roller needs this. Planning to run .60 or .90 over 500. With an 8:71 on alky.
 

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Im not saying anything against Courtney. Hes run these engines with all type of modifications. Hes my primary vendor for high performance Cad500 parts. These engines run forever in stock form. Its when we modify them for high performance we find things that could be detrimental to longevity of the engine or ourselves. I use .875i.d. tubing on all Cad500 engines I modify. With stock tub I would watch oil guage go to 20psi at 5500rpm. I was determined to shut up the naysayer belly button crowd. The LS engines have oil concerns with the long pickup tube. They go to larger tube when modifications are made. Its not difficult to fabricate a pickup tube and screen and oil pan to clear the larger tube. 20psi at idle and 55psi at 6000 is what my Cad500 mech roller lives with. I had a hydraulic roller in a Cad500 while the mech rooler engine was out for oil mods. It had the stock tube with high flow screen mesh. 35psi at idle and 60psi at 5500. I fiddlled with lifter preload to keep the lifters from pumping up and leaving the valves open. After the mech roller engine was ready it went back in. I dont have much experience with the hydraulic roller setup. The full groove mains flow lots more oil than a half groove bearing. Thats where the Pressure reading is lost. But the Flow of oil is more important than Pressure. You could have all the Pressure in the world and have minimum flow. If there was a guage that read Flow and not Pressure there wouldnt be the concern we've had. Ive had the pan off my mech roller street Cadmaro after the .875i.d. tube installation and the bearings look like new after many 6000rpm test sessions.
 
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