my poor dead engine

Discussion in 'Big Block Cadillacs' started by richie49, Aug 27, 2018.

  1. richie49

    richie49 Active Member

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    I normally run valvoline zr1 20-50 wt oils in my 500, I'm not ready to crank my engine but what is a good breakin oil ? I'm going to prime the oil system before long hopefully this week.

    Richard richie49
    Dang just went back and read of the posts that said which oils are good but what wt oil are good?
     
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  2. Cadillac Kid 1

    Cadillac Kid 1 Well-Known Member

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    I run VR-1, 20/50 in my car(s) here in San Antonio. Should work in your neck of the woods.
    Greg Surfas
     
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  3. Roy Heisenberg

    Roy Heisenberg The 472 Crank is stronger due to overlap

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    Royal Purple Break-in oil is my top pick. Lots of ZDDP, and easy on rings.
     
  4. kzhurley

    kzhurley Active Member

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    I was recommended to use maxima 20w40 by Howard's cams for break-in. Supposed to have 2x zddp
     
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  5. Roy Heisenberg

    Roy Heisenberg The 472 Crank is stronger due to overlap

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    Awesome !

    I will put that on my list of stuff to get. 2X ZDDP sounds like great insurance. I’ll see what Bob The Oil Guy thinks, and let you all know.

    I have a used cam from Howard’s and it makes good power. I trust those guys on cams, lifters, and oil ideas.

    20w40 seems like a good range for viscosity. One trick Pops showed me on break-in involves an extension cord and a frost plug heater in the side of the block. When you build a big Caddy, forget putting in one of the brass block core plugs, and put in a new frost plug heater instead. Then, about 1 hour before you fire up that monster caddy, plug in the block heater cord. Let it boil the coolant for an hour, and then start it up with warm oil and warm coolant. Never have lost a cam doing it this way, and it is under $20.00 for the extra insurance.

    If you can’t find a new frost plug heater for your Big Block Caddy, just call the Car Quest parts store in Fargo, ND and they can hook you up. Ask me how I know...
     
  6. kzhurley

    kzhurley Active Member

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    Brain fart.. It was maxima 15w50 break in oil..
     
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  7. richie49

    richie49 Active Member

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    After hearing so much about flat cam lobes for various reasons I'd like some opinions about rotating the engine without firing the engine just rotating it.What I'm
    talkin about is it ok to use starter to rotate engine for several rounds without hurting the cam.I have a primer made from a distributer and i would be priming it at the same time as rotating.I have primed it while hand turning it but I dont think the lifters stay up long enough to get full lift and i am trying to see what to do with the valve covers.I removed the baffling inside and they dont seem to hit but by turning motor over by hand but with starter it should pump lifters enough to see it the rockers hit.Id put a little clay on the tips and see what clearance I have.Does that sound right?

    richard richie49
     
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  8. Darius

    Darius Well-Known Member

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    Richie49,

    I'm not clear about what you are saying. You've made a priming tool from a distributer but you don't say how you are turning that priming tool. Is it being rotated by hand or are you using a power drill to turn the priming tool??

    A priming tool spinning at a reasonable speed should be capable of providing full oil pressure to all areas of the engine, including filling the lifters.

    Think about it this way: Camshafts turn at half the speed of the crankshaft. Cam gears turn the distributor shaft which drive the Caddy oil pump. If you are using a power drill powerful enough to maintain at least 1,000 drill RPM that would be equal to the engine turning the same oil pump while running at 2,000 RPM. If such is the case, how can the lifter plungers Not be at normal operating height?

    Holding on to a powerful drill while it is priming an engine can take two hands by itself. Then you need a hand to close the switch to crank the engine, and another to check the clearances - which appears to be your goal. Bottom line, it ain't a one man job!

    Frankly I think your are overly worried about the entire pushrod, clearance issue. If you've checked, and recheck pushrod length, lifter plunger depth, you should be safe going with it.

    Just one man's view.

    d
     
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  9. richie49

    richie49 Active Member

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    Darius
    I have the pushrods and rockers okay. i am turning the primer with a 1/2 drill. I was trying to see if the rockers hit and by how much. With the engine turning over and being primed the rockers should be going thru their entire range of lift. Everything I have heard says you need to modify covers to fit.I took out the baffling inside and they havn't hit the covers.Using clay on the tips os the rockers i have 1/8 inch clearance so I'm calling it good and going to finish assembly.
    and your right I probably am worring about it too much.

    Richard richie49
     
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  10. richie49

    richie49 Active Member

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    I finally got my engine together and in the corvair. That was thanks to a great friend of mine who came over and helped drop that dang thing in.
    Its in but nowhere ready to start.Going to work on it as the weather and rain permit.The weather isnt that cold compared to many places but the cold and rain makes it very crappy to work in. Car is under a carport but working on crushed concret and dirt under the car isnt fun:thumbdown::(. Like a lot of people having fun with their projects it's allways something and its very slow going. Can hardly wait to get it running but with the weather keeps changing I have aches and it sure slows me down.

    Richard richie49
     
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  11. pila78

    pila78 Well-Known Member

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    I used Comp Cams break-in additive with VR-1 oil. Ran for a bit over 1/2 hour, 1800 to 2200 RPM. Removed filter & cut it apart to inspect filter media. No metal found.... Changed oil & filter......I'm inclined to believe that letting a fresh engine idle is a really bad idea & don't do it...
    Recently changed oil & filter and inspected filter,..no metal or debris in filter element media...happy about that..approx 5000 miles on oil change...
     
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  12. Roy Heisenberg

    Roy Heisenberg The 472 Crank is stronger due to overlap

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    Always a great idea to cut apart the filter after dumping the oil. It can tell you a bunch about bearing health.
     
  13. Red98422

    Red98422 Active Member

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    I was taught to run up varying 2-4K for the first thirty minutes for cam and drive it like you stole it for a couple hundred for ring seat
     
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  14. Roy Heisenberg

    Roy Heisenberg The 472 Crank is stronger due to overlap

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    Well said. Ring seal is the key to power.

    Thanks,
    Roy
     
  15. 48Austin

    48Austin Safty First! Then pull the trigger!

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    The old way. It go's or blows.
     
  16. Red98422

    Red98422 Active Member

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    Lmao! Yeah probably, it was my old man who taught me

    Since we’re on the subject I would assume there is a more efficient way to do it. What’s your method?
     
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  17. richie49

    richie49 Active Member

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    Finally got to finish installing the engine in the corvair. Biggest problem at first turned out to be getting fuel, to the carb.Have an electric one hooked into the system before the manual one and it just refusede to prime. I ended up putting a vacumn to to line at the carb and let it suck the fuel to the carb.after that it primed and and I went to start the engine and it fired right up ,and I ran it up to 2000 rpm.sounded good, no extra noises ,thank god. The temps stayed good till about 22 minutes into the breakin (was running about 200 ) then the dang thing dicided to overheat and I shut it down at about 230-240.it had climbed from 200 to 230 in very little time. I have two radiator caps on this thing ,one one the radiator itself and one at the engine at the high point. Both poped off and sprayed antifreeze.:mad: I put fans on it and let the electric fan on for a while and let it cool down. I have nor clue as to why it suddenly heated up so fast. I then went ahead and did the last part of up to 2500 for two minutes then 3000 for two minutes and back down. Then I let it idle long enough to set the timing at 16 initial.I have 20 in the distributer and 10 in the can.After that it I ran it up to 2000 and then up and down and it didnt get past 195. So I think its good to go except for the idle issues:(.
    I 'm thinking the idle circuit is too lean for the cam # mts 15. I havnt tryed to see if it like ported or manifold vacumn yet . So the tune up is in the schedule.
    And this next little item is always a favorite subject. the dang starter.Of course it starts great cold but barely wants to hot. I have used 3 diffent starters,no difference.I have 2 batteries hooked up no difference.I have checked resistence at all the battery connections. I'm have # 1 welding lead from battery to starter,same to the ground. Can the welding lead be too big? When I get back on it:eek: ,I'm going to make up some new cables and put the battery on the fender and see if it starts better with short cables.

    Richard richie49
    P.S. I dont know if its the rough idle or the cam but it sounds nasty at the exhaust:) Its the 15 with the 108 lobe separation and 104 centerline.
     
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  18. richie49

    richie49 Active Member

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    Hello everyone,
    Got back on the engine for a while and finally got the starting issue fixed and i now need to address the carb.

    i wont be able to work on the tha carb for a week or so due to health reasons so while I'm stuck I like to find out if anyone has modified the idle circuit on the caddy carb 17056230. I have the book by cliff Ruggles and the recipes look mainly to favore small block or big blocks with radical engine mods.I dont know what the calibrations are just yet in a stock carb.Does anyone know a good starting point on the idle tubes and down idle restrictions ?

    Also how long can you run the engine with the break in oil (vr-1 with added zppt) before changing it out? i have about an hour on it so far.
     
  19. MIHELA

    MIHELA Active Member

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    I would only run the first batch of oil long enough to do the initial break in of the cam and a little extra for the rings before changing it out. I have heard lots of differing opinions on this but there will be metal and assembly lube in there, why circulate it through the engine longer than necessary?
     
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  20. 2JvLo

    2JvLo Member

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    Awsome! good to hear it's starting to work out. What was the problem with the hot starts? Can't wait for a video :sneaky:
     

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