my poor dead engine

richie49

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I did some work on the car,very little but some.I opened up the holes under the bumper to let more air into radiator. I'm going to put a scoop under the radiator to help put more air in. Going to remove some of the fender well on passenger side.
I took it down the road and it took a while to get it up to 180*. I went cruising for 30 minutes and the temp slowly went up to 213* Got back to the house and at idle it started to cool down some. I turned the engine off at 198*
I have the sniper fuel injection with the sniper controlling the timing. I have crank timing at 15*. Idle timing at 21* and cruise is 38* and wot is 34*. If the timing is retarded at cruise will that make it run hot? Whats happening is when cruising steady speed just driving it does not add any more timing it stays at 21 * .If I nail it, it goes to wot at 34 * but letting off it goes back to 21*. Doesn't matter if it's 35,40,60 mph. I'm ordering the dongle to hook up my sniper to a lap top to go into the fuel and timing charts. The timing chart depends on the map and vacunm and really I don't know ,going to just jump in and hope I don't crash :oops: .
Mean while back to getting more air flow around engine. Darius your just the person to ask about something on the corvair.At the windshied where it meets the hood,is it a high pressure area or low area? Really what I'd like to know is . If I open up the back of hood some so air can move ,would it push air down on the engine or suck it out to windshied ?

Richard richie49
 

PSYKO_Inc

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Not enough timing could be the culprit. Basically what happens is that the air/fuel is still burning as it goes out the exhaust, which by itself won't affect the engine temp, but makes the exhaust manifolds run hotter, which raises underhood temp. Since it's a big engine in a small engine compartment, it could theoretically raise the underhood temps enough that the radiator can't exchange heat effectively enough and causes the engine to overheat. The solution is more timing at cruise and more airflow, so you're on the right track. The base of the hood is a high pressure area, so you might try putting some spacers under the hood hinges to force more air in (this is how cowl induction systems work.)
 

PJ McCoy

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Rich, I ran into the same issue. The advance at cruise was my issue. I had to limit how much the advance would pull in. I believe I did a write up on it on my T/A build thread. After that I also limited how much mechanical advance came in.
I disconnected the vacuum advance,
Set my initial to 20. Then backed down to 18. Limited the mechanical to add 14. Used a small bolt and then kept grinding it down to add more mechanical.
I believe I am around their. I would have to look at my notebook. Yeah, keep records. It really helps me remember.
 

Darius

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I did some work on the car,very little but some.I opened up the holes under the bumper to let more air into radiator. I'm going to put a scoop under the radiator to help put more air in. Going to remove some of the fender well on passenger side.
I took it down the road and it took a while to get it up to 180*. I went cruising for 30 minutes and the temp slowly went up to 213* Got back to the house and at idle it started to cool down some. I turned the engine off at 198*
I have the sniper fuel injection with the sniper controlling the timing. I have crank timing at 15*. Idle timing at 21* and cruise is 38* and wot is 34*. If the timing is retarded at cruise will that make it run hot? Whats happening is when cruising steady speed just driving it does not add any more timing it stays at 21 * .If I nail it, it goes to wot at 34 * but letting off it goes back to 21*. Doesn't matter if it's 35,40,60 mph. I'm ordering the dongle to hook up my sniper to a lap top to go into the fuel and timing charts. The timing chart depends on the map and vacunm and really I don't know ,going to just jump in and hope I don't crash :oops: .
Mean while back to getting more air flow around engine. Darius your just the person to ask about something on the corvair.At the windshied where it meets the hood,is it a high pressure area or low area? Really what I'd like to know is . If I open up the back of hood some so air can move ,would it push air down on the engine or suck it out to windshied ?

Richard richie49
Richie,

The air at the base of the windshield is indeed a high pressure area. The two kick panels on either side of the front seat area has those two vents which get their air from that front intake grill at the base of the windshield. So tapping into that area would be of little help in getting hot air out.

The pictures we have of your setup are limited. I'm not sure what is under your engine. Is the original front trunk metal in place or has it been removed? What about the shelf just below the brake master cylinder, is that shelf gone? And where is your gas tank now? Just wondering what sheet metal has been removed already.

As you know, most V8-Vairs with front mounted engines, or at least front mounted radiators, have the area between the headlight buckets carefully opened up to some degree of ram air. Still, Air In, needs a place for Air Out.

Just thinking.

bro. d
 

richie49

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Right now the engine is on the 85 monte carlo frame so it's open some .The driver side wheel well is gone and the passenger is there but I have to move stuff to remove it. Not sure what shelf you talking about ,the firewall is basically the 85 monte carlo sheetmetal with the firewall moved back some ,not sure how much.The tank is the bottom of the old engine bay now trunk.The tank filled up the space just right. The head lights are now just to the side of the radiator and opening them would throw air into the radiator support.The back of the lights are opened but still have the lights in them. When I drove the car I noticed that the manifold air temp light was stating yellow on the sniper screen. I believe this to be because now I how a very hot radiator with a strong fan now blowing hot air toward my fuel injection unit. Going to put fresh air hose to air filter,hopefully this will cure that at least.
On the passenger side there is a lot of stuff from the rear mount radiator so it's cramped going to clear that hope so more area to radiate heat.If you look back at the pics you can see how close the fan is to the engine and it's blowing all the hot air on the engine really close. I might pull radiator and tilt the fan in the shroud toward the drivers side wheel well? It might send the air out rather than bunch up under hood. Just trying things out. A hood scoop would force air into engine bay and force the air to move down the engine and to the ground? if there is room for the air.
PJ
I have fuel injection and I have to program the dang "no need to have a laptop it's self tuning" I didn't run the sniper with the HEI long enough to see if the regular setup would keep cool before I switched to sniper controll. My Bad :rolleyes:
Richard richie49
 

PSYKO_Inc

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Just a random thought, I know some HEI modules have an extra wire that provides a few degrees of spark retard when energized; if another system is activating this function it could throw the timing map off. If you are running mechanical or vacuum advance it could also be providing too much timing causing the Sniper system to pull timing (not too familiar with that system so I don't know if it's smart enough to do that on its own.) Just a couple possible variables to take a look at.
 

gordon

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One important thing to consider is the exit area for any cooling air entering must be greater than the entrance area. Very important.
 

PJ McCoy

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One important thing to consider is the exit area for any cooling air entering must be greater than the entrance area. Very important.
Dang, his issues keep piling up!
Rich, I had forgot you had that fancy set to
Up. Must be nice for self tuning, but then again????
 

richie49

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P J
It's really nice to change settings with out taking your engine apart.Really handy! BUT I don't know what I 'm doing!:oops:
The dongle I need to set up with is in the mail. Hopefully when I open up the software on the laptop I'll be able to make sence of it. I have practiced with the samples on the program,so I know how to change things,but I don't know what to change them to yet.
Actually working on the car right now is slow. Got way too many things happening.:confused: I certainly have to get more room to let air out so it doesn't just stay in the engine bay. And have to wire up for fan controll and a setup to turn on the electric kickdown. I can always take off the hood to see if that will help with the cooling.Plenty of space for it to exit!:rofl: Hey it works for roadkill shows!
Richard richie49
 

5one9

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I just found this interesting paragraph from an old Enginebuilder Magazine article:

"Speaking of heat, one issue you need to recognize is that these engines will almost NEVER run at 180 degrees. I have never seen one to run at less than 210 and often see them running fine at 220 or 230. These engines employ thin-wall, hard alloy block castings and they transfer heat more rapidly than softer cast, thicker-walled blocks. While I certainly support oil coolers, high-capacity fans and large radiators to mitigate heat issues, don’t chase your tail trying to do what for all practical purposes can’t be done and serves no essential purpose."
 

richie49

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Who wrote this? And do you know where this article could be? I read everything I can on this subject. o_O
Going too slow on my car.Got too many doctor visits and we may have more sat and sun softball games to go to (granddaughter plays) we always go if we can. Hopefully I can get on it tomorrow.

Richard richie49
 

PJ McCoy

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That's kinds were I was going with my early post, 210 is normal for many engine swaps. Many of us don't have the pleasure of an open front t bucket!
 

5one9

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5one9
Who wrote this? And do you know where this article could be? I read everything I can on this subject. o_O
Going too slow on my car.Got too many doctor visits and we may have more sat and sun softball games to go to (granddaughter plays) we always go if we can. Hopefully I can get on it tomorrow.

Richard richie49
It's an old article and Caddy parts have come a long way in the past 16 years, but it's still interesting.

 

richie49

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Got back on the car for a bit. I cut out the fender wells on both sides.Drivers side was mostly gone to begin.If you look back you can see how cramped the passenger side was. Pretty much no where for air to move. I have the fender well gone but I haven't been able to get the pipes out so I guess I'll have to drag my torch out and be very carefull cutting them out. Hopefully it help cool it down some more. In order to cut the fender well I had to remove my battery cables wiring and fuel lines. Got to reroute them.Then next I have to dig into the sniper wiring to find the wires for the fan relay and a/c kick out.The a/c kick out is to feed current to the trans kickdown using a relay.I can set it to work the relay at any TPS setting.The default setting is 65 % throttle. I have the cable now to hook up the sniper to my laptop and work on the afr and timing but I won't try that till I have the rest of the wiring and hoses setup and it drivable again.
I did find something with the fan setup using the taurius fan.I have it where it's not centered in the shroud.Had to put it toward the drivers side.With the engine running and at temp and the fan running the fan pulls a lot of air and when you put you hand on the radiator its cool to the touch where the fan is like a circle 17-19 inchs across but there is very little air being pulled on the other end away from the fan which is at least a third of the radiator and that side is too hot too the touch. Maybe a pusher fan on that side? It might not mean anything once I get air moving around fender wells.
Richard richie49
 
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