my poor dead engine

Discussion in 'Big Block Cadillacs' started by richie49, Aug 27, 2018.

  1. 48Austin

    48Austin Safty First! Then pull the trigger!

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    What vehicle(s) do you drive?:
    1964 Commercial, 1948 Austin, 58 Pan
    Didn't I post a cooling system bleeding tool on this thread before? Get one. They work! I'm in the business, I know. Have had mine for thirty years. Got mine originally to do Jeep Cherokee's. Had big problems "burping" the cooling systems. Would always overheat the heater control valve, and then they would break. The only car it didn't work on was a Fiat Spyder.[​IMG]
     
  2. richie49

    richie49 Active Member

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    Darius
    Thanks for the pics.I like the color coded pipes:) The corvair with the radiator above the engine ,now that is some tight packaging. That was what I was dealing with a radiator in the front.
    I'll have to hunt thru my pics of my build for the radiator one. That link to all the fan style motors and hydralic :confused:dang thats a bunch of motors:rofl:.
    Greg
    The engine is running great plenty of power and good response . The part about the timing I was wanting to check on is the cruise timing which doesn't seem to kick in till after 2500 RPM
    and doesnt timing also help and hurt cooling if there's too much and not enough. Some of the spark curves I have seen show cruise to kick in at 1300 rpm and mine does not. When driving in town the engine is under 2000 rpm.
    Richard richie49
     
  3. Cadillac Kid 1

    Cadillac Kid 1 Well-Known Member

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    Richie,
    Timing is a function of bot engine speed and load. The mechanical advance is determined by speed and the vacuum advance is controlled by the engine load as it presents itself in engine vacuum. At cruise the vacuum is high and the load is light, thus the vacuum advance, advances the timing to help cooling and fuel economy.
    If the timing runs retarded for the conditions, the engine will run hotter.
    Again, repeating my suggestion is to go back to a place (std distributor and carb) where it has been proven to have the correct timing and then work on the heating issue. Once the heating issue has been found and solved you can go back to the more exotic fuel and ignition and work them out.
    Greg Surfas
     
  4. richie49

    richie49 Active Member

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    Greg
    I can not go back to carb and distributer.I would have to but a new carb fuel pump and redo the distributer. The mechanical dist always ran some what hot. I can adjust the timing to whatever I want by the lap top if I can figure out what it needs and at what times and rpm's It's a good ideal but it is too much to go back to. It's a matter of the timing to go to cruise timing at what rpm and speed. Like you said if it's retarded at steady speed it can heat up more.
    Darius
    I found some pics ,but I should have more but they show what I have if you look at these and the one's on a earlier post. P1010017.JPG P1010019.JPG radiator.JPG IMG_1973.jpg
     
  5. Cadillac Kid 1

    Cadillac Kid 1 Well-Known Member

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    Richie, I would suggest shortening the rear support legs holding the radiator to drop the radiator down a bit if you can. The way it appears is that when you close the "trunk" a good part of the radiator is covered and is only getting air through the 1/2 under the louvers.
    Greg Surfas
     
  6. mario

    mario Well-Known Member

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    Ricthie:
    It looks like the angle that radiator is situated could it be hiding a very large air bubble impeding the coolant flow?
    Ciao,
    Mario
     
  7. richie49

    richie49 Active Member

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    Mario
    That pic is from a couple of years ago. Since then I lowered the back down so all the air comes up to the radiator cap. The hoses come up from the bottom.The hot side piping comes up at the front side on the left looking down on it. The return line is at the back right side again at the bottom. On the caps I have a 18# cap on the radiator and a 16# cap on the front fill hose.
    Greg
    Looking at that pic again of the radiator ,it does look really close there . I'll have to go look at that again. I think it just looks close but it does look very close:confused: I won't be able to even go look at it till wed or thur..
    Richardd richie49
     
  8. mario

    mario Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the explanation. Why are you running two pressure caps? Different pressures at that. I could see one, but the fill cap acts like a burp bleed. Is it the highest point? If so, may be that should not be a pressure cap, but a sealed cap! Maybe the coolant pressures are not holding thereby allowing the temps to increase.
    Just spitballing here. Might trigger some thoughts from others.
    Good luck.
    Ciao,
    Mario
     
  9. richie49

    richie49 Active Member

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    Mario
    Two caps was all I could think of to fill the cooling system. The piping on the fenderwell is thee highest point in the front and the radiator is the highest in the back. To fill it up I fill from the front and the back till they are full. The other line has a bleeder valve on it to release that air on that side. The two caps are so I can get to the fill easier .The two different different caps are so if it does throw water it will be in the front with the 16# cap ,the two is just so the front one will pop first instead of the one in the now trunk:confused:. I hope that makes sence? I do have a question ? I read on the cad co site that the cadillac came with a 20# cap ! I am running16#front and 18# back .I looked and the only place to get them is at cadco so far I as I have found. Is anyone running a 20 # test radiator cap? I havnt lost any cooliant so the caps seem to be working. I have to check to see which cap is higher
    Richard richie49
     
  10. mario

    mario Well-Known Member

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    Richie:
    Both of my installs are running 15-16 # caps. So if I understand caps and pressure, each pound a cap is rated is 3 degrees over boiling point at sea level. A 15 # cap raises the boiling point 45 degrees + 212 degrees (water) = 257 degrees, at sea level.
    A 20# cap would be an additional 15 degrees, or 272 degrees. I have not seen a 20# cap. Is there a bleed valve on the highest point (on the firewall?) Could there be an air bubble trapped, impeding the full flow? Are there temp differences from front to rear?
    I don't remember if you stated that you checked that, sorry.
    Ciao,
    Mario
     
  11. jerry1261

    jerry1261 New Member

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    What vehicle(s) do you drive?:
    2019 xts 1965 eldorade
    [​IMG] not sure what you are trying to do why would want so hot. water boils at 212 adding antifreeze will raise it more base on the amount 50/50 will give you 226 the add the cap say 15lb adds 45 more with a total of 271
     
  12. richie49

    richie49 Active Member

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    Mario
    If you look back at the pics on page 17 I think you can see the bleed valve on the piping coming from the thermostat , I can bleed at 3 points both front piping and the rear radiator at the cap.
    Thanks for the info on the caps ,I knew the boiling point went up but didn't know about how much. I have to get a new temp gun to check that and see the differences.The gun I have shows the same reading at the thermostat as at the radiator inlet.But the piping has readings way different,don't know if it's air or what. Havn't been able to look at ity for several days so maybe I recheck for air in the system. I did change the thermostats and maybe I didn't get it all at the time.
    I'm also looking for another pulley to speed the pump up more. At least to 5.50 inchs which is the same as the billit one from cadco.
    Richard richie49
     
  13. richie49

    richie49 Active Member

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    I think I'm going to try a littl expirement! I going to find a clear piece of piping and put in line( temporary ) to watch how much movement I have .Mainly curious
    Richard richie49
     
  14. mario

    mario Well-Known Member

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    Ritchie:
    That is a fantastic idea. That would show if there are air bubbles trapped. If there is, then that water pump would cavitate and not push water.
    Good luck.
    Ciao,
    Mario
     
  15. Cadillac Kid 1

    Cadillac Kid 1 Well-Known Member

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    If the water pump is trying to pump against too muh resistance getting the coolant back from the radiator it will definitely cavitate as well.
    Greg Surfas
     
  16. richie49

    richie49 Active Member

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    Well back again with pure crap!! Test drove car ,outside temp was 93 and it went to 200 and never went below .It did climb higher so, I'm going where I should have long ago
    I'm going front radiator for cooling. After a lot of measuring I can fit a radiator from a 1985 monte carlo. (not going to be fun) I have looked till my eyes blurr online. Its going to be the same size as 5one9's new radiator. No electric fans and right now the fan is a 15 inch and hope to find a 17 or 18 7 blade fan. How much difference is there on the radiators.
    So many all say the same things about rows and sizes and prices go from $130 to$800 I cant go with a $400 to 500 right now . Not going to tie in on the rear radiator but not removing
    it yet. When I first got my engine it had a 8 blade 18 inch fan ,that thing moved some air.
    Richard richie49
     
  17. 5one9

    5one9 Active Member

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    Mine was less than $260 shipped from Engineered Cooling Products. Two 1" cores. Very well made. I've been told that if you need something a little different you should call and talk to the owner.
     
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  18. Cadillac Kid 1

    Cadillac Kid 1 Well-Known Member

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    Richie,
    If you ran a constant 200 degrees with the outside temp of 93 degrees with your configuration,and it did not heat up when you ran at slow speeds or idle, that is the best you can expect of a warmed over 500. I had mine out for a jaunt to keep the cobwebs out of it and at just about 90 degrees I was running 195.
    Greg Surfas
     
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  19. Cadillac Kid 1

    Cadillac Kid 1 Well-Known Member

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    Just another point of interest. Just got back from a 20 mile jaunt, mostly at 60 MPH. With the outside temp at 91* I was running a constant 185 degrees with a 160 degree thermostat and a "stock" Cu/Brass 4 row radiator. Running 34 degrees total mechanical advance at 3000 RPM (60 = 3000) and NO vacuum advance involved.
    When I came back to city streets and switched on the vacuum advance The twin 16 inch fans held the temperature to 195* but at idle at a stop light the temp went up to 200* and stayed there.
    Greg Surfas
     
  20. richie49

    richie49 Active Member

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    Greg
    The temp went up past 200 and never came back down under 200 .It did manage to get up to 230 .I'm gonna just park it for a few weeks(as if it hasn't been parked a lot:rofl: already)
    Got some family stuff to attend too so not sure when I'll get back to it.It will be before summer ends!!!:laugh:
    Richard richie49
     

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