my poor dead engine

richie49

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Greg
Lord I wish I had that number when I was looking. The one I got was a one inch plug. I didnt measure it and wish I had. That thing was a bad bad little
piece to put in. I think that was because the edges of the hole are kinda sharp ,Most places to put plugs are beveled a little. that looked a lot like the one I put in with that hole in it.:confused:
I got to test it some last night before dinner. I put in the 180 hi flow thermostat and refilled cooliant. Then started it up( the starter is working great) Let it run and watched the temp.
160 -170- 180-190-:confused:-200:eek:-208:mad:. Murphy strikes again !! My electric fans decided not to come on. I looked at them and changed the setting to come on at 160 instead of 185 and they started up and the temps cooled at idle to 188.They may go lower but I didnt have time to see if it would cool lower. Going to check that out after while. The fan control has a probe that you put in the fins of the fan to turn it on and off. I may have to reposition the probe to get a better reading . Where it is now may be too close to the top of the radiator and if there is a air pocket it might be at that location. The radiator isn't totaly flat ,it's tilted a little and if there is air in the system the probe is there at that location. originally it was flat and I changed it so if there was air I could get it at the cap for sure. Going to test all that then see about the pulley change.The pulley is the one that 5one 9 made for his engine. Sure hope I have the results he has had .It made a big improvement on his.
Richard richie49
 

richie49

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This heating up at different times and different temps is not right. On the cooling system the fans are pulling a lot of air thru the radiator. The thermostats don't seem to be doing much
between the 180 normal caddy,the hi flow 195 caddy and the chevy 180 hi flow with blocked bypass. Before the fans kick in and the radiator is getting too hot to touch, as the fans kick on the radiator cools down to where you can touch it.It is moving cooliant and cooling it down .No blocked or crimped hoses that I have found. This setup should be cooling.
When I get a chance I'm going to go thru all the wiring to the fans .The relays are all new and the harness are also. I'm also going to run a wire to the dash of the car with a light
so I will know when the fans kick on. I could have a loose connection ,bad relay or the controller is possably not staying on when it should. I f I can't find the problem I will put another radiator in front of the engine along with the one in the back. I'm kinda tired of fighting this mess.It will not be fun to stuff another thing in the front of this car that's for sure.
Richard richie49
 

Darius

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This heating up at different times and different temps is not right. On the cooling system the fans are pulling a lot of air thru the radiator. The thermostats don't seem to be doing much
between the 180 normal caddy,the hi flow 195 caddy and the chevy 180 hi flow with blocked bypass. Before the fans kick in and the radiator is getting too hot to touch, as the fans kick on the radiator cools down to where you can touch it.It is moving cooliant and cooling it down .No blocked or crimped hoses that I have found. This setup should be cooling.
When I get a chance I'm going to go thru all the wiring to the fans .The relays are all new and the harness are also. I'm also going to run a wire to the dash of the car with a light
so I will know when the fans kick on. I could have a loose connection ,bad relay or the controller is possably not staying on when it should
. I f I can't find the problem I will put another radiator in front of the engine along with the one in the back. I'm kinda tired of fighting this mess.It will not be fun to stuff another thing in the front of this car that's for sure.
Richard richie49
Sounds like you are heading in the right direction. It might just be the "pick up point" for those fans.
Good luck!

d
 

richie49

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I checked out the wiring for my fans. Every wire was good relays are getting a little too hot I think but seem to be working correctly. I did find a wire that goes from the controller
to the relays that turn on the fans,it activates the relay and the fans come on.That wire was not tight at all so it might not have the fans on all the time running down the road maybe on off that type of thing. I tighten it and while in the yard being reved up and idling on and off the sniper gauge stayed at 180 to 182. My temp gauge isnt digital but showed the same or close to same.
Tomorrow I'm hoping to run the light to dash to show fans are on or off.
I do believe I need a new temp gun for testing temps around the car.At the neck coming out of the engine temps are (as far as it went today) 180 to 184. The piping that heads to radiator
shows 197 on the pipe at the back it shows 198 ,at the tank on the hot side it was showing 195 and at the cool side of the radiator tank showed 175. Very weird readings. But the readings on the
hand held show that it was at 180 to 182 .:) Dang thing is what it says today may not be the same tommorow.:( Is there any thing that can be done to ward off this Murphy charactor, he's been rather mean latey:confused: Now keep in mind I dont want him to visit anyone else on here ,so maybe we can send him to someone we dont really care for:eek:;), just a thought!
Richard richie49
 

richie49

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I managed to do a test run. Drove about 45 minutes with the temps slowly climing up. I drove at 35 to 45 in town style and a few throttle run not all the way fast . The temps did much better
and stayed at 189 for a long while till it climbed up a little at a atime till it hit 200*. Like I had said it is cooling the radiator. The radiator takes a while to get hot all the way across it and turn the fans back on. I was wondering if the pump still isnt running fast enough to keep the water going so I checked at cadco just to check the pulley size on their overdrive pulley.
I looked at the water pumps and I dicided to look up the flow cooler pump for a caddy. This pic is what they sell with the holes in the center impeller. Did they change their design ?
The pump I have is supposed to be a flow cooler. It has the flat impellor on the out side like the flowcooler but doesnt have the holes in the center and isnt bilit looking. Its made of magnesion or similar metal. I s mine an older model or a knockoff? Now while it is in good shape is is older because it set so long not being used (car running) so it can be earlier model. And if it is ,is it
worth while getting the new model.
Richard richie49
 

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Cadillac Kid 1

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The FlowKooler (new design) has the new style impeller with the "openings" in the rear plate. They do in fact reduce cavitaqtion, but also give the impeller a better "grip" on the coolant. Without giving out numbers they advertise greater low speed flow and higher prressure. Wouldn't have anything eles on ANY of my 472/500 inch motors. Hot or stock.
Greg Surfas
 

Darius

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Richie and 5one9,

I believe that your Flowkooler pumps are of an older design. That 'guess' could be totally wrong but it's my guess.

The Flowkooler pump in my Caddy is like the one shown in Richie's picture - the cooper colored one with the holes and visible fins.

I bought my water pump long before the engine was ready for break-in (it still hasn't run in the car, only on the stand). So I've had what I believe is the newer design for a good number of years - whatever that means.

Richie, your setup will never be like those with front mounted radiators simply because there isn't the "ram air" that naturally is forced through the fins ahead of everything else when the radiator is up front. Been there, done that - more than once.

best,

bro. d
 

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richie49

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Darius
I do believe you are right about it may not be the same as the front mounted ones. Well its not being cooperative at all. The pump I have is like in the pic shown by 5one9. If I remember right the fins on it are not curved like the flow cooler one shown. So I believe I'm going to order one from flow cooler the newer style . I have a radiator that i'm going to mount in front of the fan I have. It might help or not. If it doesnt help I am going to dieconnect the piping to the back and get a radiator as big as I can put in the front of the engine That might be rather exspensive but it would certainly cool then!! Summer is coming up but might not mean a lot if we are gonna be stuck at home till God knows when. Iam ready to go cruising at the local car shows and meets around town so I have to have the car reliable
Richard richie49
 

richie49

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Okay Everyone
I'd like to see what the opinions are going to be about my cooling issues. As far as it's set up now it's isn't stable. And I'm not making any sure headway on it. So as far as i can see I have 3 options.
1 I can continue with what I got and hope to find a solution!
2 I can add another radiator in front of the system I have . This might be a problem if the pump is aready having problems moving the cooliant I have now.Dont know if it is but will our pumps
push thru 2 radiators and 20 feet of pipe?
3 Or should I just remove what I have and force fit a Full size radiator in front . I think I can make it work with electric fans and remove the mechanical fans and slanting the radiator like in a
corvette somewhat. I won't know for sure about fitting one in till I take everything in front of the engine out which is a pain in the _____..!
if anyone knows more options Let me know.
Richard richie49
 

2JvLo

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What vehicle(s) do you drive?
66 Cdv 500
There has to be something wrong here since the oem cars could all keep it nice on temperature when new.
Have you heard about the thermostatic system cadillac used to prevent overheating by switching ignition vacuum to manifold vacuum for a boost in idle advance and higher idle to get the water and air moving? It'll put the vacuum advance all in and increase timing to i thought something like 20*.

Has you're current radiator the same capacity as the original?
Enough airflow thru the radiator? (Only a few electric fans flow as much as a mechanical)
Enough timing at idle? (Confirmed)?
Does the thermostat works the way it needs to?
Is the small coolant outlet on the back of the head connected?

I could imagine that since you're radiator is rear mounted you'd need more water pump speed because of it breathing thru a straw, Maybe it's worth it trying an even smaller pulley?
 

richie49

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Air flow thru the radiator is very strong.I have 2 fans OEM ford windstar fans. i did have a bad connection and that's corrected. As far as the rest I have now running 20* at idle with a cranking timing of 14* now(changed). Im running a sniper so the oem way of timing at idle isnt any good now.Right now the timing stays at 20* up to around 2050 rpm or so (hard to watch timing for sure but arounding there.) Then timing goes up to ?maybe 23-28, at wide open it goes to 34 and at cruise its around 38. Still playing with timing controll by sniper.
The cam I have is a CHP cam #15 (new version) 108 558 lift avertised dur.293 int and ex does anyone think I need more timing in lower rpms from say 1300 up to 2000 rpm ? Dang I have to take it out and check for cruise timing . Dang sniper was supposed to be plug and go:(
Richard richie49
 

Cadillac Kid 1

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Richie,
I do not know how you are going to do it but the numbers that I used successfully with a CadCo 300T cam which is close to what you have, 10:1 compression and a QJ and a DUI HEI on my 500 running 3.36:1 rear end gears was as follows.
MECHANICAL
Initial timing @600RPM- 10 degrees
Mechanical advance at 3400 RPM-24 degrees.
VACUUM
Starts at 10" Vacuum
15 degrees at 17 inches

Richie, from where I sit and this is with no disrespect, you seem to be herding cats. You have a cooling problem with several suspected causes and you also have a fuel and ignition system that requires some fine tuning. You probably don't want to do it but IF THIS WERE ME I would first find the cause and cure the overheating problem, I would do that by going back to a standard ignition and a carburetor. Set the ignition up with a curve that gives you 22 degrees at 3500 RPM, set the initial at 12* and get a vacuum can that gives you enough advance at your idle vacuum (you should get at least 10") to idle well. That will get you in the ball park for good engine performance and you can then hunt down the overheating issue. Work on one thing at a time.
Greg Surfas
 

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I used to have an '83 supra and that car was a bitch to get all the air out of the cooling system whenever it was opened up. It would run hot and overheat while idling or in traffic but run okay moving. The coolant level would read full, but you could never get all the coolant back in that you drained out.
To completely bleed out the air in the system whenever it was opened up:

the car had to be brought up to operating temp with radiator cap off,
thermostat opened,
heater mixing valve open full,
burp the system by squeezing the lowest part of the lowest radiator hose repeatedly with the engine running until you saw no more bubbles in the system. Each squeeze would only get a few bubbles but continue until no more bubbles.

Of course sticking your whole arm in there to grab the lower hose with the motor running was dangerous. Anything less than all procedures above would not get all the air out.

Didn't take much air in the system to disrupt the coolant flow and cause overheating. My friend had an '84 Supra and it had the same problem.
 

Darius

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https://cadillacmagazine.com/forums/threads/1965-corvair.17602/#post-200091

https://cadillacmagazine.com/forums/threads/1965-corvair.17602/

Not to be to ‘cocksure’ of what I’m about to say but some of you may not be aware of the particular vehicle that Richie49 has his Caddy 500 in. It is a 1965 Chevrolet Corvair and that is critically important in that Corvairs were built from 1960-69 as Rear Engined, Air cooled vehicles.

Richie’s first setup had the engine in a sort of mid/rear placement using the Cadillac Eldorado Turbo hydro 425 front drive train, mounted in the rear where the air cooled engine with it’s trans-axle previously resided. That setup had haftsaft angle problems ... and possibly others about which I have no knowledge. (See first link for pictures)

Richie scraped that idea and move the engine to the front into what previously had been the trunk of the Corvair. (See second link for pictures).

I've only seen one picture showing where, or how, the current radiator is mounted which it is in the rear and in a semi horizontal position. (Richard, can you provide additional pictures of the current setup - especially the fan?)

Lady and Gentlemen, I have a history of owning Chevy Corvairs. Most were left with the 164 Cubic inch, air-cooled engines but all were highly modified with horrendous (copious?) quantites of boost. Also I have had water cooled Aluminum V8 engines in Corvairs - and have experienced both front mounted and rear mounted radiators. Doing what Richard has done is not for the faint of heart. Stuffing that big engines into what was Chevrolet smallest, economy car -- and having it work -- is tough duty. That process also brings cooling problems that are not found in other configurations.

Many of the comments being offered are really good but unless you’ve dealt with a water cooled V8 in a car originally fitted with an air cooled six, you are missing certain key issues.

I couple of weeks ago I ran across pictures from two of my Corvairs with V8s. I’ll try to find and add them to this.

Best,

bro. d
 

superbinder

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Thanks for the pics, Darius. i was looking for the 425 corvair thread last week, never found it. I too have had many corvairs but no v8s
 

Darius

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Not trying to hijack Richie's thread but wanted to show some pictures of two Corvairs with V8s.

The first pictures 4 pictures are of a 1965 Corvair (Maroon in color) with a front mounted radiator and rear mounted Buick aluminum 215 CID V8 engine. The colored coded tubes are actually copper and were painted to try and keep things straight as they went forward and back, to and from, the radiator:
 

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Darius

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The second set of pictures are from a 1966 Corvair, this one with an Oldsmobile aluminum 215 cid V8 - attached to a Porsche G50/20 Six speed transaxle. The radiator in this build was in the rear, just forward of the engine. A custom fan shroud was made fashioned for a Ford Taurus 2-speed high output fan:
 

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Darius

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Bro d,
You must admit it takes just a bit less radiator and air flow to cool 215 inches.
Greg Surfas
CRAP ALL MIGHTY!@!! Just spent a ton of time writing a damn reply and accidentally lost the sucker. Damn it!

Bottom line there were details for what works and what doesn't - based on 40 years of experience. Multiple high dollar fans, custom radiators - some aluminum and others copper, hell even a hydraulic powered radiator fan fed by the power steering pump. Screw it.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=hydraulic+cooling+fan&qpvt=hydraulic+cooling+fan&FORM=IGRE

d
 
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