Chevy 427 Oil pump in 390 Cadillac

Discussion in 'Early Cadillac Engines' started by Kevin Aspevig, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. Kevin Aspevig

    Kevin Aspevig New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Montana
    What vehicle(s) do you drive?:
    58 series 62 2-door hardtop
    Hello, I was reading on the THE ALLARD REGISTER about their 19 Cadillac Engine Tuning Tips, article seen here: http://www.allardregister.org/blog/2013/5/23/19-cadillac-engine-tuning-tips.html
    #15 states "Oil pump – use the one with a piston in the relief valve, not the one with a ball. Or – adapt the pump from a 427 Chevy.". Has anyone done this conversion, or heard about it? I don't know if they are talking about fitting the 427 pump to the 390 block, or if you use the 427 internals in the 390 pump? I plan to tear my 60's 390 down this fall and I can get a 427 oil pump for comparison, I just wanted to see if anyone has done this before. Thanks for the help.
     
    El Diablo likes this.
  2. El Diablo

    El Diablo Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    79
    Location:
    Yuma, AZ
    What vehicle(s) do you drive?:
    1959 Cadillac Sedan deVille
    I've never heard about this modification, but that would be great if you can do this. Plus there is a HUGE selection of oil pumps out there for the bbc that will outperform the stocker in every way.

    With that being said, even though the Allard used a 390 Cad, I believe it ran looser tolerances for the extended RPM. If you are not going to road race your car, the original pump should be sufficient providing the housing is not wore out. The 390 has a windage tray/pan baffle that works pretty good. I never had any lubrication related issues with my 390.

    Now the 500 is a different story. A few of us here are looking for better oiling options that what the factory offered .
     
  3. Kevin Aspevig

    Kevin Aspevig New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Montana
    What vehicle(s) do you drive?:
    58 series 62 2-door hardtop
    That makes sense with the looser tolerances. I'm not going to race mine I just wanted to look into any modifications or upgrades I could do to extend the life while giving it a little more power. I only want to rebuild this engine once in my life if I can help it so I want it as reliable and probably overbuilt as I can. On the 500, not sure if you've seen this but Cad Company has a higher volume, higher pressure oil pump that they build that they claim they have Dyno pressure graphs to show other high performance pumps drop pressure at higher rpms while theirs has a consistent pressure increase curve with the rpm. Here's the link if you haven't seen it before. https://www.cad500parts.com/catalog/page23.htm
    Thanks for the info!
     
  4. Darius

    Darius Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2004
    Messages:
    3,792
    Likes Received:
    373
    Hello Kevin,

    Glad to have you here on the forum.

    I found your post (above) interesting and somewhat provocative in that you are saying that something is available that we've all been told for a very long time is not available. That being a stock style oil pump with greater volume. I won't go into any details but will leave that to other who may chime in (blueprinted STOCK pumps do flow better than non-blueprinted but the question is "by how much?).

    Best,

    bro. d (Darius)
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
    El Diablo likes this.
  5. Ted in Olympia

    Ted in Olympia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2004
    Messages:
    5,264
    Likes Received:
    39
    Location:
    Olympia, WA
    Used of an internal oil pump where a external one used to be? Interesting concept. Maybe the 390 has an internal pump and I only tore down the 429 but I thought they were a similar engine?

    Not sure I agree of his point on high pressure flow less? What you are doing is changing the point where the relief valve opens you are not putting your thumb over a garden hose or restricting the volume in anyway. The only disadvantage of higher pressure is that it takes more power to drive the pump and may overload the pump driveshaft but I think this would take a lot of pressure.

    Also I'm not sure how you will make your own front engine cover, this is a complex part on the 429 and I assume it is on the 390 also?

    Ted
     
  6. Kevin Aspevig

    Kevin Aspevig New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Montana
    What vehicle(s) do you drive?:
    58 series 62 2-door hardtop
    Ted the 331/365/390's had an internal oil pump driven off the distributor. In not sure when Cadillac went to the external oil pump but the "early" 390 from '59-62 was internal. What I'm not sure of is the Cadillac 365/390 at least up to 1962 was opposite distributor rotation from Chevy SBC engines so I'm not sure how they where modifying the Chevy 427 for this, or maybe it doesn't matter but I think it should right? Anyway, I find it very fascinating that it supposedly can be done I just wish there was more info on it. As far as if I need it I'm not sure but I always like to find ways to modify older things with newer more reliable parts, or at least more readily accessable parts...
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
  7. richie49

    richie49 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Pasadena texas
    I might be thinking wrong about this but isnt the 390 engine an internal oil pump with the distributer in the back? I was thinking they were useing a 427 inside guts inside the 390 pump..

    Im confused:eek::thumbdown::)

    Richard richie49
     
  8. 48Austin

    48Austin Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2017
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    83
    Location:
    berwyn
    What vehicle(s) do you drive?:
    1964 Commercial, 1948 Austin, 58 Pan
    If I am not mistaken. the 429 pump is in the timing cover AND is different from year to year. Abortion engines. Transformations from the 390's to 472's.
    Ed McMahon "You are correct Sir"
     
  9. kzhurley

    kzhurley Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    76
    Location:
    Ohio
    The early 59?-62 engines had the oil pump and ditsributor in the rear like the 331 and 365s... The 63-up 390s are more like the 429
    I'm no expert, but before I decided to stuff a 500 in place of my 365 in my 56 coupe I was looking for a pre-62 390. It was pretty close to bolt in for my 56.

    Never had any luck finding a 390, so I decided to use up a 500 instead.
     
  10. El Diablo

    El Diablo Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    79
    Location:
    Yuma, AZ
    What vehicle(s) do you drive?:
    1959 Cadillac Sedan deVille
    The 1962 390 was a one year wonder as well. It was the 1st year for Cadillac to use an bottom mount oil filter as opposed to the Lube R Finer. Also, 100% of the oil passed through the filter on the 62. Earlier engines gave the oil a choice of which path to follow.
     
  11. Kevin Aspevig

    Kevin Aspevig New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Montana
    What vehicle(s) do you drive?:
    58 series 62 2-door hardtop
    I don't know if they all had true full flow filtering, but I do know that the 60-62 had the spin on oil filter on the bottom side of the engine, the 59 still had the canister on top.
     
    El Diablo likes this.
  12. El Diablo

    El Diablo Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    79
    Location:
    Yuma, AZ
    What vehicle(s) do you drive?:
    1959 Cadillac Sedan deVille
    There I go spreading bad information again.
     

Share This Page

Users found this page by searching for:

  1. 390 cadillac oil pump