500 Turbo Build??

Discussion in 'Big Block Cadillacs' started by 500 in a Ford, Sep 24, 2015.

  1. 500 in a Ford

    500 in a Ford New Member

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    Hi guys, I actually came to the forum via Ted after buying some stuff off him on ebay to get my 500 up and running!


    Long and short of it is I've crammed a 500 and TH400 into my 1973 Gran Torino, fits real well (solid mounted to the frame) but I'm planning on making some serious power with this over the next couple of years. This wont be a quick build by any means as I don't have the money to drop into a car in one go.....and my insurance wouldn't cover me on more than 400hp at this point in time anyway

    But what I want to know is can I make say 800hp so 100hp/L with this engine?

    I know 600 is attainable NA, I saw the powertv build up....however I have a brand new BW Schwitzer S466 lying around and want to make use of it so this raises the following questions



    Pistons - I'm guessing the forged pistons from MTS will be the best bet here? Wont use hypers with the caddy thats for sure

    Heads - This is my main stumbling block right now, not a huge amount of info on this topic from what I could see.....do I keep the stock iron heads (possibly port them) and up the boost to compensate for the more restrictive runners? Or are the MTS heads going to be worth the very sizeable outlay?

    Rocker gear - I've read you can use aftermarket ford pieces on the ally heads ? Or would the rocker shaft be the best option?

    Exhaust - Headers or would the cast manifolds suffice? Obviously headers would involve some custom fabrication on my part but I can live with that, port size wise it looks like 1 7/8ths is the biggest I can go and at that I'd also have to use cap heads to secure them to the block instead of standard set screws

    Intake - I spoke to Marty about this already and a single plane will be used....or I may build a sheetmetal one if I feel the need to have stainless sheetmetal in my engine bay!


    This vehicle wont be a daily driver, it'll be a weekend toy and a run what you brung machine. It may get some daily use in summer but generally I have a landrover for all my day to day trundling about




    Heres some random pics of what I've got anyway! There is a full build thread on this if anyone gets bored and wants a read I'll post it up too






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  2. The Mad Cadder

    The Mad Cadder Well-Known Member

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    800 hp n.a is doable but it aint cheap..

    I would not recommend messing with high dollar ported aluminum heads ..
    Really no point just add boost instead

    CNC Pored Iron is what you want for a turbo build..800 is a cinch with that..
    I have lots of porting experience all on 76CC Caddy heads.. All ill say is
    by the time you pay your local machine shop to do their end and you get your
    valves springs and so on add in your time .. and if you don't know how
    and where to pull out meat and how much..

    Ive come to the realization that for all most all it makes no sense to do it
    anyother way

    Cadco has made 3000 hp with their Pro Comp iron heads and a solid flat tappet cam..

    Now you just can't go and do that obviously they have a 5 main girdle that ties to the
    pan rail and a full valley girdle along with 4 added inboard and 4 added outboard
    head studs
     
  3. 500 in a Ford

    500 in a Ford New Member

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    haha well I'm not aiming to hit 3000hp so thats fine and CNC ported iron heads will definitely be kinder on the wallet

    Would a main girdle be needed for 800 or is the block stout enough without it ?


    I wouldn't be able to get a set done here anyway, I'm in the UK so it'll be a set of heads from Marty that end up on this engine either way!
     
  4. The Mad Cadder

    The Mad Cadder Well-Known Member

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    800 is about where you start to get cap flex.. either cap straps
    (cheap and effective) or doweling or better yet both are a good idea..

    You don't need a girdle
     
  5. MTS Marty AKA Nashillac

    MTS Marty AKA Nashillac New Member

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    you do realize that's a 425
     
  6. Cadillac Kid 1

    Cadillac Kid 1 Well-Known Member

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    Uncle Marty does it again.
    Greg Surfas
     
  7. 500 in a Ford

    500 in a Ford New Member

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    I'm not sure if thats a joke or sarcasm......


    Definitely a 500 though, casting number on the crank is a 500 number
     
  8. Cadillac Kid 1

    Cadillac Kid 1 Well-Known Member

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    Sure looks like a 425 intake and rocker arm covers, and the heater feed fitting on the back of the right head does look 425. Pull the rocker arm covers and more can be seen.
    Greg Surfas
     
  9. 500 in a Ford

    500 in a Ford New Member

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    Its a 5200Q number on the block, crank is 1495094. Back of the block is definitely 500 style too and the crank doesn't have scallops in it, just the one small cut out
     
  10. Yendor

    Yendor Member

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    Not sure what Marty sees that I don't.
    Looks like the one pan is off a 425, but the block looks like a 5200.

    The 425 block has a hump on the top drivers side in the rear and lacks the 3 gussets along the top like the 5200.
    Sure hate to disagree with Marty, but if that is a 425 block, it's not like the one I have here for mock up.

    They surely didn't make more than one for a three year run did they?
     
  11. 500 in a Ford

    500 in a Ford New Member

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    Its definitely a 500, check the numbers I just posted up and yes the block has three ribs instead of a pad!

    The sump is off an Eldo I think....it came with a rear sump and front sump plus a short tail TH400


    Although if that front sump is actually a mid sump 425 then I've ordered the wrong oil pickup :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
     
  12. MTS Marty AKA Nashillac

    MTS Marty AKA Nashillac New Member

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    We'll if it is a 500 then all is good.
    We don't have any 500 oil pick-up tubes anymore. All is good though for a used one.
    I think that's a 500 with 425 heads on it?
     
  13. 500 in a Ford

    500 in a Ford New Member

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    Its a 76 500, don't know if its got 425 heads on it or not but the rocker arms look like standard 500 ones. Don't think the heads are 425 anyway.....just smog era 500 ones
     
  14. The Mad Cadder

    The Mad Cadder Well-Known Member

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    Same thought here.. the crank flange is definitley not a 425..

    The block and heads look to be Dark Caddy Blue ..the intake and rocker covers
    the newer Baby Caddy blue

    Some 425 heads I know have the number cast into the top of the exhaust port
     
  15. MTS Marty AKA Nashillac

    MTS Marty AKA Nashillac New Member

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    Really don't want to rain on your parade. Just take the valve covers off and look at the 500/425 heads. If all is good then that's ok. The 425 heads are full of voids. Rockers are the same all the way to 368 engines.
     
  16. 500 in a Ford

    500 in a Ford New Member

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    Block and heads are definitely dark metallic blue, heads have a number on them.....cant remember it but if I can be bothered I'll check tomorrow. Doesn't really matter at this point in time tbh.......if the heads are getting swapped out at a later date then it'll be fine though
     
  17. Ted in Olympia

    Ted in Olympia Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the Forum,

    First think I thought when I saw the pictures is that it was a 425 also. The valve covers are 425, the intake is 425, and the mid sump oil pan is from a 77-79 DeVille with a 425.

    But the crank is from a 1970-1971 500 and this is the one you want with the turbo and power you want to get. The heads are also 500 since the rear heater hose screws in and is not pressed in; I think 74-76 smog heads but I'm not sure without the numbers.

    I think the7-76 heads would be great for a turbo since they have the 120 chambers (but I'm not an expert on turbos). The early heads and aftermarket heads are 76cc and you have to have dish pistons to get the lower compression.

    The parts you have is exactly what you would expect in the UK where parts are hard to find.

    Sean is Mr Big Power with a Turbo

    viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7625

    When you get much more than 600hp NA (maybe 500hp) with a 500 the dependability goes way down. Not sure about with a Turbo but 900hp will be a bit hard on things.

    The green machine was kind of a fun build.

    viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10857

    Ted
     
  18. Ted in Olympia

    Ted in Olympia Well-Known Member

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    In the for sale section you asked about the Sanderson Headers and I don't think they really do hug very well. On my T-Bird I used 460 Van headers

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hed-8 ... plications

    They most likely also make 460 headers for your Torino that you can switch the flange on.

    http://www.summitracing.com/search/part ... e/7-5l-460

    Here's where I made the headers for the T-Bird.

    viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12273&hilit=headers+ted+started

    But since you plan to use the turbo everything has to be more custom than this.

    Ted
     
  19. 500 in a Ford

    500 in a Ford New Member

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    If its a 425 pan then I've ordered the wrong pickup.......I thought that was a front sump, will have to get a mid sump pickup pipe in that case or possibly cut and shut the current pan to make it fit. Doing so would actually allow me to get the engine further back against the firewall too as currently that mid sump the limiting factor on engine position because it catches the crossmember


    Head wise these would be the best chamber size as you want an 8:1 ish CR for good boost levels, I'm not sure on the strength of the block obviously but at 800 with FI its going to be a lot easier on the engine than at 800 NA given the engine doesn't have to work as hard to make it. I also wont need to spin the engine over 5000rpm to get to my goal, that turbo should hopefully give me the total boost level I need at 3500rpm so I'd think 5000 redline would be a safe limit. High rpm tends to be the engine killer rather than complete power. However if this engine is going to be a handful to make live at 800 then I can always set my sights a little lower

    This probably wont be the last engine this car gets anyway.....
     
  20. The Mad Cadder

    The Mad Cadder Well-Known Member

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    120's are a poor choice in a strong effort motor..

    Especially a boosted app..

    The exhaust port has a bad choke between the floor and roof
    just past the valve that cannot be fixed.. The intake also cannot
    be made to flow as good.. I've yet to see any 120 break 280 cfm..

    low comp can be had with (250/902/950) 76cc heads.. contrary to
    the myths 950's are also not the best choice among the small chamber
    heads!!

    There are oiling mods you need to do for that kind of power as well..
    If it's a early block the oil passages are small and need to be drilled
    As well as pickup mods and adding a feed line

    Durability has alot ,imo, to do with how careful the builder is..
    Not cutting corners and of course knowledge ..

    Keep in mind your working with 40-47 year old parts and in most
    cases have no history of what kind of stupid shit
    and abuse it's seen.
     

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